This interview with Lynne McTaggart explored her pioneering research on quantum energy fields and intention-based healing. McTaggart explained her concept of "The Field" - a quantum energy field where subatomic particles exchange information and energy, demonstrating how this field can be harnessed for healing through group intention experiments. She detailed her work conducting 42 experiments, including studies showing significant results in plant growth and reductions in violence in war-torn areas, with 38 experiments showing positive effects. McTaggart discussed her "Power of Eight" methodology, where small groups of 6-12 people focus intention on specific outcomes, sharing examples of remarkable healings including cases of blindness and genetic liver disease. The conversation also covered her upcoming course "Think Yourself Young" which focuses on cellular rejuvenation through mental processes and community engagement, challenging cultural attitudes toward aging, particularly for women. 

Takeaways 

• Quantum energy fields store near-infinite information through the vibration and energy transfer of subatomic particles, providing a scientific framework for how intention may influence the physical world.
• Controlled experiments — including plant growth studies and violence reduction trials in Washington D.C. and St. Louis — showed 42–43% decreases in violence in targeted areas, suggesting intention can have large-scale measurable impact.
• Lynne's Power of Eight groups, developed in 2008, involve 6–12 people holding a shared intention for just 10 minutes, with 8 participants considered the optimal group size.
• A striking finding is the "mirror effect" — those sending intentions often experience healing themselves, pointing to the power of altruism and other-focused thinking.
• This mirrors research Peta shares on volunteering, which has shown significant effectiveness in treating severe depression.
• Lynne's new book The God Notes explores how sound creates the world, drawing on pioneering scientists at leading universities who are challenging Newtonian and Darwinian paradigms.
• Epigenetics supports the view that genes are not destiny — environment, mindset, and intention can influence how genes express themselves.
• Lynne's course "Think Yourself Young" centres on the idea that ageing is largely a mental process, with community, purpose, and mental engagement being key factors in cellular rejuvenation.

Please note: this transcript is unedited. 

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It's just connecting.

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Welcome back, everybody, and thank you for joining us for another episode of The Fourth Wave in Therapy. I am very privileged to have a special guest with me for this episode, Lynne McTaggart. Now, Lynne is an award-winning journalist and an author of eight books, and there's probably a few more still in there, including the international bestsellers The Power of Eight, which I have a copy sitting right here next to me.

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Also, The Field and the Intention Experiment, The Bond, and, due to be released in October 2026, this year, The God Notes.

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She's consistently ranked among the top 100 spiritual leaders for her pioneering work on consciousness and the power of intention and other hidden energies.

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So we are going to dive deep into this today. If you haven't yet seen the new Gaia series, the documentary, The Power of Intention, that is out. And to date, she's run at least 42 experiments that we know about, with scientists from prestigious universities around the world, 38 of which have shown positive effects.

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And, if you're a reader and you like to read fiction, you may be familiar with Dan Brown, so he has written many books, but his book, The Lost Symbol, actually featured a character partly based on Lynne herself. So, Lynne, welcome to The Fourth Wave in Therapy, and thank you for joining me.

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Thank you very much. It's great to be here with you.

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It's wonderful to have you, and maybe if we could start for listeners who perhaps are not as familiar with some of the work you've done and research.

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How would you describe, kind of, this core concept or, you know, idea behind the field? Like, what is it that we're talking about there?

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Okay, well, we're actually talking about a quantum energy field, so it's not metaphorical, there's an actual something.

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And scientists for more than 100 years have understood that all subatomic particles, the very smallest elements of our universe, aren't particles at all. They're not solid and stable things, like little billiard balls, you know, as we're shown in chemistry class. They're vibrating packets of energy.

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And they send energy back and forth between themselves.

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like a tiny microscopic game of tennis. Now, there's not much energy between two subatomic particles, but if you add up all the subatomic particles and all of the things in all the universe doing this little energy dance, you come up with this extraordinary

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Energy, because when they're sending it back and forth.

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they create what's called a virtual particle, which is a little poof of energy. And so the energy is so dense in this giant quantum field that if you were sitting a meter away from me, a yard away from me, we'd have more energy

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And we could… so that we could heat all the oceans of the world. So, that powerful.

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Now, there are two elements that are really important about this quantum field as it relates to us. Number one.

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Quantum waves, as they're called, they're not just particles, they're waves, actually waves of energy.

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have a near-infinite capacity to store information. So if you took the Library of Congress, which has, in U.S, every book, published in English, and you put that on a subatomic wave, it will fit on the size

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Of a sugar cube.

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That's how… energy, dense, Quantum waves are, that's how much capacity they have.

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So, number one, waves have a near infinite capacity to store energy.

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And so you've got all of these subatomic particles as part of this giant field, these subatomic waves, all gathering information, essentially, and storing it. So it's like a huge

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You know, it's a huge memory bank, a shadow universe of everything that ever was.

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So, that answers how we can access information beyond space and time, beyond our senses, etc. The second thing that's really important here is that we are energy, essentially, at our nevermost level. We aren't just a solid and stable thing, we're energy.

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And we, ourselves, go on to infinity, our subatomic particles. Subatomic particles go on nearly to infinity, so that gives us an

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a model, a matrix, for how we're all connected. You know, lots of people say, no, we're all connected, but we don't experience life that way, and we don't really understand it, but that's a simple mechanism. So the field's an actual something, and we're all part of it.

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That's fantastic. And I know through your work, particularly the experiments that you've run, this

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energy that you talk about, even if we were a feet or a foot apart, is measurable, isn't it? And you can actually, see that, and you've obviously done some of this work. How… how is it that that can be measured, you know, in kind of, kind of quantitative

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terms so that people could see something as an outcome.

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So, number one, you can measure, say, plant growth. Now, we ran experiments, with four sets of seeds, where we

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sent intention to one of the sets of seeds, and the others were controls, and the scientists planted them 5 days later, and we discovered that the seeds sent intention grew significantly higher than controls. And we ran that experiment 6 more times, or 5 more times. So, it was very robust, we published it.

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Now, we've also done experiments to lower violence in war-torn areas, and we've done this many, many times. And with that, we've measured… we've measured

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did the violence go down? Now, there's a lot of reasons why

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violence or injuries or deaths can go down. You know, it can be the weather, it can be a change of military strategy, whatever. But when you do it over and over and over, and you get to see that.

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over and over and over again. It becomes compelling. And our latest experiment that Gaia is going to be

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they're doing a documentary about it now, demonstrates we did an intention to lower violence in the three most violent neighborhoods in Washington, D.C. last February.

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And we waited patiently afterward, and we looked at that evidence versus some of the other neighborhoods around Washington. And Washington, D.C. was a very violent place. And violence was going down, but it really accelerated. Literally the day of our experiment, we found those three areas, they went down by 42%.

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And that has happened before with St. Louis, Missouri. We chose the most violent area in America, the most violent city. That's officially St. Louis. And we took the most violent

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neighborhood in the most violent city, and we did intention there, and again, we lowered violence by 43%, which wasn't the case with all of the neighborhoods around it, or St. Louis as a whole. Their violence continued to go up. Only our little neighborhood went down. So… and we have… always have scientists measuring these.

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Different scientists from different universities.

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So we can't be accused of bias.

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Absolutely, no, all the confounding factors that people look for when we go to publish. So, tell me, what is happening then? You've mentioned intention, and I'm familiar with the work, but what is it that

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the group that are coming together, or the people that are obviously delivering the experiment, what are they intending, and for how long? Like, they're… you're picking these suburbs, but… or the plant growth, like you said. What is it that they're actually doing?

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A lot of people think that you need to do all kinds of special things before you do intention. That hasn't been my experience, and I've been doing this since 2007, and invented the whole idea, essentially, of group intention in 2008, when I created Power of Eight groups. I put people in small groups just to experiment what would happen.

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And…

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What I've always done since the beginning, and any scientist will tell you, if you do something and you want to prove it, you've got to keep replicating it. We did it for 10 minutes the first time, because we thought that was the longest people could hold it, and that carried on. It's 10 minutes. That's it.

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Oh, wow. And daily, or just as a one-off?

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Well, you know, it can be a one-off. I mean, I've had people who… I had a woman who was going blind, doctors couldn't do anything about her, Lori, and they gave up on her, and she had her Power of 8 group do one

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Power of 8 group healing, 10 minutes, and she was… she has 20-20 vision now. We had somebody else with

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a genetic liver disease, who… this is Lisa, who, just…

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wandered in to do a Power of Eight group with a group that were doing it at a place called the Sanctuary in north of England.

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First time, feels all kinds of things, 10 minutes, and her whole… her liver was degenerating to the point where, she was going to need a liver transplant. She was only in her 40s. And her liver is normal. After that, no other intervention, her spleen is normal, no other intervention. So, I've seen this

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Thousands of times.

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Yeah, I'm sure you are. You must have case study after case study from these. Is there…

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I'm curious, The Power of Eight, obviously that's the title of one of your books as well, and I understand in the grouping of putting people together just so that they could kind of come together for that bond.

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Is there something about 8 people? Is that just a sweet spot? Is there anything that suggests maybe more or less still gets the same outcome?

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No, listen, it was… it was a… it was a phrase of my husband's. We were kicking around this idea back in 2008, so I was doing these big intention experiments, they were getting results.

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And so, I was thinking to myself, well, we need to shrink this down to something smaller in our workshops. We were doing a first set of workshops around America, and I just said to my husband, I don't know, and our team.

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I don't know. Maybe I'll put people in groups of 8 or so, and have them send intention.

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Excuse me!

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to a member of the group of the Health Challenge. And my husband is also a journalist, and a really good headline writer, and he looks at me and he goes, yeah, I love it! The power of eight. And that's how it happened. And what I have found over the years is that

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It works with 6, it works with 7, it works with 12. It doesn't… my own power of 8 group varies, and it goes up to about 12, 13 people.

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It works. I always say that 8 is a sweet spot. It's a Goldilocks number, because it's not too big, it's not too little. When you get below about 5 or 6, it's too small. It's not really a group. And if it's more than 12, it's gonna take a long time before it's your turn again.

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Yeah, yeah, I do know what you mean. And similar to our kind of EFT tapping trials, we sort of always started with about 10, and ended up with about 6 or 7 by the end, so it was, that kind of power of the group borrowed benefits.

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Yes. Do you think?

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I mean, how important is it, I guess, you know, we have a very big therapy therapist audience.

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And they're working in energy psychology, and they're working, and they're probably familiar.

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What about the whole how we intend to ourselves?

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is there power in the intentions we hold for ourselves, and the impact, I guess, on our cellular bodies and things, as well as putting ourselves in, you know, the right space to hold a client that we might be working with? Do you think that that's something that we need to be more aware of, rather than

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Kind of rushing and then being present.

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But being aware of, you know, heart maths research around the heart coherence and the magnetic field of the body.

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Okay. I am probably an outlier in this area, because a lot of people deal with self-help. You know.

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Let's work on me! Let's work on me! And I have found that the key to all of this is other help. I like to say I'm the High Priestess of other help, because what I have found is that in power of eight groups, the reason why a group works so well is that you often are getting off of yourself. So it's not just intention.

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That makes it work.

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It's group effects.

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when we get together in a group, there is an energizing effect. Emile Durkheim, the famous French psychologist, called it,

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collective effervescence. You know, we all… raises our game. So there's group effects. Of course, intention works, our thoughts are things that affect other things, but altruism plays a huge part.

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And I have found when people are stuck, I almost always say to them.

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Get off of yourself. And I think of Andy, for instance, who was trying to get a job. She was going through a divorce, she had two small children, she had sold her gift store business, and

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She was looking for work. Now, she was talented. She was a really good marketer, she was a good coach, and she couldn't get anything. And it went on for months. She was one of my classes. I run year-long classes, master classes, and she was part of it, and not getting anywhere, so I finally just said.

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We tried a few things, and I said, Andy, Can't go off of yourself.

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hold an intention for somebody else who needs it more than you, and I have the perfect person. And in that instance, I…

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put her and the rest of the master class onto doing an intention for a young boy called Luke, who had tried to kill himself after breaking up with his first serious girlfriend. He threw himself off a 40-foot structure onto hard ground, and he'd broken everything, he had brain damage, he had nerve damage, and doctors didn't think he was going to live.

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So, I had Andy and the rest of the Masterclass do Intentions for Luke on successive Sundays, 3 times, and…

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Luke got out of the hospital in record time and is now a normal young man.

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Now, maybe we did that, maybe we didn't, but the really interesting thing is what happened to Andy, because the week after she did this intention.

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She ends up getting a call from someone she doesn't even know.

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Offering her her dream job. And that has happened over and over and over again. People doing intention for other people.

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are healed just as much as if they hold it themselves. Now, excuse me for one second, I'm just going to get a lozenge, so you can…

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Yeah, yeah, you're right. I'll have a drink of water. Good.

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Okay.

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So, great.

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Well, you asked about therapists holding it.

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No, not for you. I do a whole course called Become a Better Healer, and it is all about using intention and all kinds of things that you need to do

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to essentially get off of yourself. No, when you're doing an intention for someone else, you imagine them being healthy and well in every way. Now, you can…

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look to yourself. If you're having a bad day, evidence shows that therapists trying to heal something, healers trying to heal something, when they're not at the top of their game, when they're ill or something like that, are going to be less successful than if they are. But…

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You're a conduit, again, for other help, and so I think that's the important element.

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I completely agree with you. I've read quite a few studies about even the treatment of severe depression, major depression, and some of the most effective treatments, in what I've read, have been no medication, no psychotherapy as such, but purely

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Tasking someone with severe depression to go into a volunteering role, and sometimes that has been sort of,

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you know, in soup kitchens and things like that, and then monitoring their depression symptoms, and there's an absolute correlation with helping other people, and… Sure. So, yeah, very similar kind of concept.

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Lynn… You pioneered this field of

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and I mean, kind of, discipline area of intentions and the experiments that you were running, including with, you know, plant-based products, but then right through to, kind of, you know, levels of violence in suburbs.

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at a time that probably there were raised eyebrows, and I've experienced that with the whole EFT tapping research and validation of those. I mean, how have you found the embracing or acceptance of what you've done as a journalist?

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Well, it depends on what you're talking about in terms of audience. I'm not trying to prove anything to conventional science. I'll do that again.

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It depends on who you're talking to, and who you're talking about.

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I'm not trying to prove anything to conventional science. Conventional science is some of the least scientific areas I know, and I say that after 36 years of covering modern medicine.

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I have a magazine with my husband called What Doctors Don't Tell You, and we've looked at what works and what doesn't work in conventional and alternative medicine, as I say, for 36 years. And what we have found

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is that medicine isn't very scientific. In fact, it's appallingly unscientific. And science is essentially a religion.

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It's not based on any fact, and again, I say this after 8… writing 8 books, and most of them being about some area of science.

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whenever there is something new in science, science is extremely reactionary. You know, scientists who

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Dear to tread into new territory.

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Really risk the attack of their peers, of losing their jobs, all those sorts of things.

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They are really putting themselves at risk, and so most of science is about confirming the status quo.

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Now, the areas of science I'm always interested in is the very frontier of new science, and that's what I've just done in my new book, The God Notes, which is all about how sound essentially creates the world. And I've looked to

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Pioneering scientists, all at prestigious universities, but real pioneers who are producing Evidence changing completely.

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our view of the world, and that's always been my area of interest. So, I'm not speaking

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to the choir. I'm speaking to the con… I'm speaking, essentially, to the open-minded.

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And I'm speaking to people who are seekers after truth. And people understand more and more, whether it is in medicine or conventional science, or physics, or whatever, that the world is far grander

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and more interesting than we've been told. We've been told

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information about our story and the story of the universe based on material that is more than 300 years old. You know, the discoveries of Isaac Newton. We've also had our story defined by the work of Charles Darwin.

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Who was very influenced by…

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information about population explosion, and came to the conclusion early on that there just wasn't enough to go around. So, life must proceed through struggle. And of course.

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One of his buddies came up with the catchphrase, survival of the fittest, and that swept the globe, and that idea of competitive individualism has never left us.

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And that paradigm

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of, eat or be eaten, life is a race to the finish line, has been behind all of the destruction that we're seeing now, the breakdowns of all kinds of things in our lives, and also, it's a wrong story. It's kept us in our box.

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But what I've discovered through intention and other areas of extended human potential is that we're far grander than we've been told. We have far greater capacity. We just need to unleash it, and that's the work that I do.

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But I also do…

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I also do work about demonstrating, proving the science of it, showing this is… this is real, and that's been…

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that's why, I guess, being a journalist and an investigative reporter, that's how I started out. I was busting baby-selling rings with hidden tape recorders and all kinds of things like that. But that sense of digging to the bottom and getting the real story has never left me.

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Amazing.

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And Lynne, if someone is listening in and they are perhaps feeling

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that disconnect, and we know loneliness is on the rise, despite our connected online world. We know, you know, there's…

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war-torn areas and combat zones still occurring, and someone is kind of thinking, okay, well, I want to take a step here and perhaps try to start to focus on others, or connect, or do some intention. What could they take away? What step could they take listening in if they were to

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perhaps choose someone, or is it… is it better to kind of… I do know that you have your website page where you do have stories there of people that have put themselves forward for some healing intention. Is that a better place for someone to start?

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Well, they can. They can… they can join our Intention of the Week. We do intentions, my whole community does intentions for 3 people every week.

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on Sundays, they can sign up for that. They can sign up for my website. We have so many tools of all kinds of price points, to help people. So, when they join.

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They get a little video from me with the absolute basics of doing intention, plus

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information about setting up a power of 8 group.

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But then, they can do all kinds of things. For instance, I have a low-cost club that, less than the cost of the monthly cost of Netflix, where I'm actually working with people and having them do experiments themselves, and we came together, we do intention experiments together, and much, much more. So there's all kinds of areas, and of course.

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they can join my courses. I've got Intention Essentials for people just starting out, giving them 7 key essentials. I have the Masterclass for people who

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are a bit more experienced, where we take it out and do all kinds of other things other than just the key essentials, but there are 13 keys to real mastery of intention that I teach, and then I have courses for professionals. I'm going to start a new one, Think Yourself Young, which is coming out, I guess it's coming out now, as we, you know, as this gets

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released, so people can check out everything on my website, LynnMcTaggart.com.

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Oh, fantastic. And if anyone… if you're listening and you're driving, we have got all those links below, everyone, so you can come back to the show notes here and click through and find some of those, and I can certainly, you know, make sure all those details are there. Lynne, I like this think yourself young part, so, maybe just in wrapping up with you, is that about, because we've talked a little bit about self-intention, but

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Is that about, sort of, cellular, kind of, rejuvenation? Is that what the angle is, or is something different?

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No, it's cellular rejuvenation, and certainly there's been evidence, you know, with a number of scientists from Harvard, from Milan, showing that

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just…

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being in a certain space, getting out of now, and changing your time can really turn back the clock. But also, think about, and there's a lot of exercises we're going to do. With that course, it's going to be part recorded, part live.

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And I'm… I'm going to be putting people into groups and doing all kinds of things with them, which is very cool. But yeah, I'm talking about cellular rejuvenation. Now, I'm going to be teaching about everything.

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Related to it. So, it's really going to be a mental process in most instances, because aging is mainly a mental process.

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Aging is about, I'm feeling old, and I'm feeling old, and looking in the mirror and saying, oh God, I look awful, I look old. I better do something about it, I better get a facelift, I better do this, I better get a hair transplant, I better not be an older person, because that is vilified. And I think that's part of our culture that I want to talk about.

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too, because older women

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are vilified. Older women are meant to feel discarded. I gotta do whatever I have to do to be like those Hollywood women who don't ever seem to change. Facelift after facelift. They've got loads of work, and so I'm questioning that whole thing, too, is why?

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Some other cultures don't believe.

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that getting older is bad. French, for instance, revere older women. I have a next-door neighbor who's French, and I'm sort of like his… his older mom. I mean, he's always trying… he's younger than us, and he's always trying to tell me about all of his new activities, et cetera, et cetera, and kind of really…

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Really, really looks to my approval, looks to my advice.

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has a different view of old is no longer necessary. So, it's very interesting that the Me Too movement just went on, you know, women who are harassed. There's a whole other group that I'm starting a meme about, which is about older women who need to suddenly take

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Charge of this amazing time.

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So, there's that. There's… community is really important. There is…

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working on elements of your brain and staying engaged, having a purpose. So all of this is mental stuff. It's not… it's not fixing your face. But, you have to also remember with

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epigenetics. Epigenetics is about the idea that our… we are not our genes. Genes are not destiny. Genes are like…

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a piano.

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Sitting silently, waiting to be played.

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And the thing that plays it is not the gene itself, it is the outside environment. So it is the food you eat, the water you drink, the friends you have, the sum total of how you live your lives. That determines whether those genes get expressed or not. Witness

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Lisa, Lisa, with her liver disease, goes into a group.

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is connected by this loving group of strangers who have her back, who are sending healing to her, boom, it changes her life. She gets healed. That… those kinds of…

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Amazing healings have to say to us, there's something behind and beyond the biological.

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that can do things. So, it's the same.

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If you think you are old, You're gonna get old.

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And your body is going to decay. And of course, you have to do some things for it, and I have, you know, remember, I've done what Dr. So tell you for 35 years, so I've got a whole laundry list of the things that you should do in one session. It's about what you should do with your body.

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To keep it younger, younger and to rejuvenate it. And most people are not very good at that, in terms of diet, supplements, all of that. So, we talk about that, but that's just one of the sessions. All the rest is really about

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mental stuff, and the way you're organizing your life with community, etc. So, and…

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You're thinking about it, and how that can… how you change your environment.

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Something that is timeless, and you become timeless.

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Oh, I love it. Can't wait for that one to come out, and, we'll get you back in 10 years' time. You can tell us the stories of all these people that have, fantastic, I love it, I love it.

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Take pictures of before and after were great. Yeah, why not? I love it. It's not just ins… it's not just the face. Yes. Everybody's body.

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is aging in so many ways, according to, you know, a lot of the suggestions I'm going to give people about thinking themselves have a huge effect on the heart, on preventing cancer, on all of those other things, on Alzheimer's. We're going to do a lot to keep people's brains young.

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I love it. Those links are below, everyone, so if anyone's, listening in, no matter where in time, I'm sure you'll be able to go and click through, just so that you can see, and the community you can join. Lynne, it's been an absolute pleasure. I read your books many, many years ago. I can't wait till the God notes come out. I did wonder what that title was about, but you have explained it. So, sound, you said absolutely about sound, and I'm hoping to see some music maybe be featured.

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the research in there as well, so…

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It's, it's… thank you very much. Thank you very much. Yes, it'll… it'll be multidimensional. Wonderful.

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Fantastic. So, again, links are below, everyone. Dr Lynn McTabbitt, everybody, and thank you so much, Lynn, for joining us and just sharing your wisdom today.

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Thank you. You may need to do that one again. I'm not a doctor.

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Let's do it again. I just upgraded you!

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I mean, I have… I have many honorary PhDs. I have an honorary PhD, but I never used it.

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I'll take it off again. Alright, okay, hang on a minute.

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Well, thank you very much, Lynne McTaggart. It's been just a joy and a blessing to connect with you today, and just hear your story after reading all your books over the years. It's been wonderful just to hear it from you firsthand.

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Thank you, it's been great to be here with you.

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Amazing. Thanks, everyone, and we look forward to hearing and seeing you in another episode of the Fourth Wave in Therapy.

Website: https://lynnemctaggart.com/ 

FULL-LENGTH DOCUMENTARY - The Power of Intention with Lynne McTaggart - Gaia

https://youtu.be/imo-Pw3ypcs?si=XkCWII6KuO8hYAd1 

7-part online program guides you through the practical science of reversing your unconscious scripts about aging and help you create a positive mindset and lifestyle practices to help change your own aging trajectory: 
https://community.lynnemctaggart.com/product/think-yourself-young/