In this episode of The Fourth Wave in Therapy, Peta interviewed Bryan Hubbard about his therapeutic method Timelight, which he developed after overcoming chronic depression. Bryan shared his personal journey, including early childhood trauma and a decade-long struggle with depression, and explained how this led him to explore the energetic and spiritual dimensions of trauma. He described Timelight as a process that addresses the energetic release at the point of trauma, rather than just its manifestations like depression or anxiety. Bryan discussed the concept of time as an energy created by trauma, and how this shifts the understanding of identity and healing. He also outlined the "three selves" model of the psyche, which includes the present self, past selves (psychological, narrative, and knowledge), and the potential center. The conversation touched on the ACEs study, the impact of trauma on health, and the potential for deeper healing by working at the energetic level. Bryan encouraged therapists to consider Timelight as a complementary approach to deepen their trauma work, and mentioned his books and website for further learning. 

Please note: this transcript is unedited.

 

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There we are. Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of the Fourth Wave in Therapy, and I'm absolutely thrilled to share someone with you in this particular episode, who has come to us through one of our other interviews.

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So, Lynne McTaggart, you may have heard in Season 3, and now, of course, we're into Season 4, and I have Brian Hubbard, her husband.

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Now, Brian is the creator of Timelight, a transformative therapeutic method developed through his own journey overcoming chronic depression.

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His approach combines spiritual insight, trauma work, and neuroscience, reflecting his philosophical background and extensive research.

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Now, in addition to his work in therapy, Brian is a journalist at heart, a publisher, and the co-editor of the International Health Magazine with Lynne.

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What Doctors Don't Tell You, now published in 9 countries. And we have a more extensive bio, and including Brian's two books that he does have available as well below,

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so I encourage you to go and have a look at the show notes. But Brian, thank you, and welcome to the Fourth Wave in Therapy.

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Oh, Peter, thank you so much for inviting me, and Lynn still has fond memories of your podcast in the previous series.

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We had a great… we had a great conversation about her new program, which was all about reversing the aging process.

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So, wonderful, wonderful. Right.

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Right, okay.

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Maybe, Brian, if we can start just from the top, just… I know you share in your bio openly about your own journey with depression, and how that perhaps impacted maybe your searching and,

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ultimately, time light that emerged out of that.

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Sure. I mean, it's hard to sort of say where does a journey begin, whether it's even with our own lives, or previous lives, I don't know, or generations back.

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But my own story starts, you know, soon after my birth. I was a child my father certainly didn't want to have, and he made that abundantly clear, and from the ages of 2 to about 7,

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That's me, not my father. He didn't speak to me. He didn't speak to me at all, he didn't…

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Name me, and my only means of communication with him, from his side, was whistling.

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He would only whistle at me. And, until eventually my mother said, you know, I think you probably communicated with your child, and eventually he did start talking to me.

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But the effect was, you know, profound, because,

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I grew up, you know, as a young adult with

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literally no confidence at all, because I hadn't even been named, you know, you can imagine the effect that has on you.

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So I… I really lack confidence, and even down to

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really feeling I shouldn't buy clothes for myself, because I wasn't quite good enough to have clothes, and things like this.

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Crazy, really, but there you are, and

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By, sort of, mid-age, I'd, early middle age, I crashed into chronic depression.

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Which lasted for a good 10 years. But the funny thing about it, Peter, was that, at no point did I, for a moment, attribute my… my mental state to what had happened to me as a child.

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I'd never made that connection at all.

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And I think it's quite surprising, people often don't, when clearly it's very obvious that that must be the cause.

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So that was the background to Timeline. Do you want me to push on, or do you want to…

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Yeah, no, no, absolutely want to unpack, yeah, how Timelight came to be through, I guess, that… yeah, I'm guessing that 10-year journey with depression.

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Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think, I think the problem is because, as you mentioned earlier, Lynn and I have been working on a magazine called What Doctors Don't Tell You for a very long time, which means that we,

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you know, we're dangerous people because we know something, and

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I knew that a lot of standard psychotherapy was not going to help me.

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I knew that the drugs may have a short-term effect, but beyond that, it was going to be placebo.

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I very much doubted the brain imbalance, you know, chemical imbalance. I didn't believe that was the case.

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I didn't really know… I tried a few therapist TFT I tried for a little while, but it wasn't very effective, and I really…

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didn't really know where to go with this. I just felt that

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if this was going to be resolved, and I was going to start having a life of joy and happiness.

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I was going to have to sort this out somehow. And it was a crisis point for me, and because, you know, I'd had married with Lynn, two lovely children.

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you know, I had a successful publishing company, and yet I just wanted to die, you know? And, and I just thought, this is crazy, I just don't want to be like that.

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And I think it was just a crisis point.

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I mean, I'd had clues along the way, which finally led to understanding what was going on, and the first clue was…

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My own father, actually, because by that time we had resolved, if you like, our differences, and…

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We've had a, sort of, fairly amicable adult relationship.

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But of the day I went to see him, he was lying in bed. By this time, he was 90, I think, 90?

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And he just… I said, whoa, what are you in bed, what's going on? And he just said, I've had enough.

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And I was like, wow, what's that even mean? And, I said to Mum, is he okay?

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He says, yeah, it'll be like this a few days, I'm sure he'll be fine.

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And, so I went home, this is the Sunday, on the Wednesday, got the phone call from Mom, Dad's died.

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I thought, wow, he really did die from having had enough, you know, and what the heck was that?

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And I think it's not that unusual. I think you read the certain… there are old people who just want to give up, you know?

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They just feel they've had it. And it's not that… because physically, he was strong.

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He had a medical checkup about a year or two before, strong heart, you know, good constitution.

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the doc said, oh, yeah, your heart's good 15, 20 years younger than your body, you know. He was in good shape, but yeah, he just had enough.

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And then,

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he really had enough. And then, then, I suppose the final point came when

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I was reading this book… Lynn was away, and I was reading this book about ghosts, and I don't know why I picked it up.

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I had no interest in the subject, really, but for some reason, the book called me, and I pulled it off the shelf and started reading it.

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It was a fascinating book, because it was written by a Canadian academic called Ian Stevens.

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And Higgs was fascinated by the subject himself.

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And, even though he, you know, endangered, you know, retaining his chair, you know, losing funding, and goodness knows what else is…

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all academics have to worry about, but he was determined to explore this further. But the stories were extraordinary, inasmuch as, you know, these are ordinary people, they really didn't want to talk to Stevenson.

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This was embarrassing to them, but, you know, they felt, science, I better tell the story.

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And it was story after story of unfinished business. It was the ghost somehow trying to reach back the living.

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It was suddenly, you've got to do this, you've got to come do this. You know, the number of lost wills found in hidden cabinets was incredible, and all sorts of stories like that.

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Some were funny, but it was just suddenly that. I put the book down, and, you know, as I say, I reached this crisis point.

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And this expression came into my head, and it was, that to which you do not fully attend shall weigh you down.

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Wow! What the heck was that? That to which you do not fully attend shall weigh you down.

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I just… I didn't understand what that meant.

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And I sort of… and it sort of… it gave me sort of a further glimpse of… a few things came through about time, and… and the energy of time,

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and then…

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End of transmission, if you like.

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You're on your own, my friend. And, from… I spent the next 5 years really understanding what that was.

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I don't know where it came from, or what it was indeed, but yeah, it was clearly… seemed to me a very profound thing, which needed to be explored.

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And I spent 5 years doing so. And, finally came to understand what was going on, not just with me, but I feel for many,

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many people who suffer

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Trauma and upsets and…

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lives, and I came to understand that. Yeah, and as I said, I had to unpack it for a long time.

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I tested it in workshops.

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I wrote an initial book, which I self-published, called Timelight,

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And if you read that now, it's quite different from what I would say now, but it was…

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It was an idea that was emerging over those years, really.

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Yeah, and was it in that 5 years in the exploring of the meaning of time, what that message meant?

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Was it a gradual lifting of that depression? Is that what happened for you as you were, sort of.

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coming to terms, I guess. Yeah. I'm guessing acknowledging what had happened when you were much, much younger as a young boy.

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Yeah, I mean, I think if one could put such a thing on a… you know, if you could put fluid onto a percentage scale, I would say, you know, that revelation alone shifted the dial,

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you know, 60%. And I suddenly thought, oh, I was starting to lift, you know, suddenly… I didn't fully understand what this expression meant.

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But somehow, it seemed profound, and I sort of understood that.

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You know, this was probably the key to my depression. And I understood it at an intuitive level rather than an intellectual level.

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And it sort of made sense, even though it made no sense, if that makes sense. So then from there, it was really unraveling.

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It was also understanding

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I want to explain a lot more about time, because people get quite confused by that term, and… but the impact of time, and indeed the creation

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Of three time selves, and that came quite early on in the work as well.

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And so by the end of those, yeah, three-fold years,

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Yeah, I think I was clear of the depression. But, you know, it also…

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you know, what had happened to me manifests in many ways. It wasn't just depression. I mean, the real, I suppose, was the anger I had.

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Could be triggered by anything, you know?

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And that was really hard, I think, for Lynn to live with that, and…

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her extreme patience is really the sole reason, I think, why we are still married, because

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You know, he's… I just… I had no control over that. And that was another manifestation of this same trauma.

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Yes, yeah. So there are a number of things. Well, I would say this, look.

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I'm an extraordinarily happy person, I'm blessed, I'm so thankful to be alive, but you know, I still have to be vigilant.

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I have to be awake, and I have to be watchful of all thoughts, all the time, and say, where did that come from?

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It doesn't mean I express them as anger.

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But, you know, you still have to be awake, so that's… that's really the point, you know, I think.

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I think it's true for every human being. I think we have to be more mindful of what we're thinking, you know, anyway.

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Yeah, I think, the world would be a better place if everyone was a bit more present and aware.

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I think so.

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And, Brian, if someone is listening in and kind of curious and going, okay, well.

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what… what is this timeline? I know it's a therapeutic approach, but if someone's brand new and listening and kind of curious, could you give us a little bit of a… maybe a bit of an overview of if someone is sitting,

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perhaps, in session, what does that look like if you're working through this process with them?

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Oh, well, that would be quite different from what I'm explaining to you now, really, because…

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you know, it's nice if people understand what I'm… what we're saying here, but it's not… it's sort of counterintuitive, because it goes against everything that we've been told that we are,

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and how life works. And I think that, actually, I shift it 180 degrees.

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So it is quite different from that, so…

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I'll explain it to you and your listeners first, rather than talk about how it's presented in a therapeutic session, if I may.

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So, what my understanding was that

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An energy is released at the point of trauma.

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And, the reason I say that is because when you start looking at the evidence.

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it sort of makes sense that that's what's going on. I mean, you just take it at the most mundane level.

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If, for example, and we all have these problems in life, you know, a partner leaves us or dies, or we lose our home, we lose our job, you know, and it's not unusual for people to suffer in some ways,

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such as, you know, depression, phobias, and things like anxiety, and what you will. And we all say, perfectly natural.

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you know, you've just gone through a terrible trauma, whatever. So yeah, of course you'd have this.

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expression and problem in the world. And, you know, unfortunately, about… I think it's about 3 or 4% of people actually go seek out therapy, you know?

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Something like… I don't know the actual figures, but I'd imagine 70% to 80% of people suppress it, and just tough their way through it.

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And then there are a few percent who'll, you know, relapsed into drug-taking, alcoholism, rest.

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But, you know, but we say nonetheless, oh, yeah, but it's natural, the guy's lost his wife, or whatever's happened.

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And it sort of is natural.

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But, you know, let's look on a bit further with this idea of what's natural. Now, in 1997, you may… I'm sure you're familiar with this, Kaiser Permanent and CDC put together this ACEs study,

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Adverse Childhood Events. And it's quite arbitrary, but they listed 18 events that could happen to children.

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Anything from fairly mundane, things like, you know, your parents went home and you went home, got home, through to feeling there's a very hostile, violent atmosphere at home, through to your parents hitting you,

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Bright the way through incest.

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You know, alcoholism in the family, father going to jail, divorced, all the rest of it. Anyway, there are 18 arbitrary things, you know what.

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And they did an examination of 3,500.

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And they discovered that, people who suffered 6 or more of these ACEs when they were children died 20 years prematurely, compared to someone who had experienced one or fewer,

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or none.

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And similarly, they found that people who suffer adverse events

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I think it was 6 or more, or 4 times, 4 times more likely to suffer cancer and heart disease.

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Someone are, like, 4 or 5 times more likely to suffer a chronic health problem, like arthritis.

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And…

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They said, well, that's jolly interesting. And furthermore, now they say, yeah, you know, childhood trauma is the fourth major cause of chronic disease and early death.

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the fourth major cause. And when you think that the number one is heart disease, two is cancer, three, I think it's smoking, a lot of those are driven by those traumas in the first place,

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so I would suggest it's even more extensive than running in at fourth place.

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So let's put that to one side for a minute. So that's going on.

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Then you look at the work of people like Afshalon Caspi, a fascinating guy from King's College.

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who said, you know, men's all conditions, we departmentalized it because of the drugs industry.

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We were desperate to find different remedies for different problems. But hey, suppose the old mental health problems are a spectrum disorder.

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In other words, that someone who has a fear of open spaces has a lesser something than someone who has schizophrenia, say.

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He says, and the difference is only in degree, not type. There's only one type, but there's a matter of degree.

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So, there's that. Park that for a minute. Then you've got the work of people like Bessel van der Kolk, and his wonderful book, you know, The Body Keeps the Score.

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I'm sure everyone's read that one. When he talks about his work with trauma patients, yeah, and how they have

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brains that have changed shape, their amygdala are slightly different. And he says, you know, trauma's after-effects are biochemical, they're driven by something.

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So here we have this whole canopy of pointers, of clues.

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Which we need to now join together.

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Now, so, for example, if the fact that, you know, I've suffered a trauma as a child and I've now got cancer, the fact that this is possibly some sort of spectrum disorder,

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the fact my brain is different in its shape, the fact that this is… my biochemistry is being driven.

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What is going on?

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To me, the answer has to be, it has to be energetic.

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Energy is something… is a force that changes things.

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standard scientific, you know, definition, and it changes your biochemistry, it changes your brain.

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It has an profound impact on your mortality and your likelihood of chronic disease.

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And yet, on the same… but it's the same process.

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When someone says that my wife's died, I'm now crashed into depression.

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What is the process that links all this together?

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And as I say, I believe it is energetic. I believe, and it's one of the basic laws, tenets, whatever, of time-light, that

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Time is an energy that is released at the point of trauma. Now, this is quite a big game changer in itself for several reasons.

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One is that

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We're no longer… and so, therefore, if that NG is the case, what is it doing? It is manifesting into the world as depression, anxiety, phobia,

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trallah-la.

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And that is the level at which most psychotherapy happens. We're dealing with the depression.

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Timeline suggests we need to go deeper, and we need to go to the driver of the depression, which is the energy beneath it.

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And this is where TimeLight begins. So that's the first thing. Time light changes the relationship to time.

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And not, not the manifestation. Treat the process, not the manifestation. What are the mantras will give to my therapist?

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So we work at the level of… the energetic level.

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Released at the point of trauma.

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Nope.

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What it also means, and this is just as profound, is that… It also questions identity.

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Now, one of the fundamental beliefs, I suppose, of the West is that

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I am an individual with agency, choice, and so forth, who works his way through life, and to whom things happen.

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And so, therefore, here am I, you know, free agent Brian, who happens to suffer from depression.

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So, free agent

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Brian goes to see Peter. I said, can you help me my depression, Peter?

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But really what's going on is that, no.

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If depression is a manifestation of Process of energy itself

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then so too is the Brian who identifies with the depression.

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The depression and the person who is depressed are one and the same thing.

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And that, to me, fundamentally changes the way we treat people.

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And, you know, I just think that this whole concept of identity is absolutely central to understanding what's going on with all of us and mental disorders.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So many things, Brian, and you're talking my language with the energetic moment, I guess, in time as well.

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So, somewhere in the past when that trauma happened, like you say.

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In time. Yeah, that…

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Now, I'm curious, though, your thoughts, because I've read Bessel's work, and obviously lots of the ACE work and things like that.

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A lot of people talk about a trauma…

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When something happens that perhaps the energy becomes trapped or stuck, you're using language which says, the trauma

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And the energy in that moment is released. Is there a difference between those two concepts?

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Yeah, there's a big difference, and I think that's the other aspect of the work, is that it's a deeply spiritual work.

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Yeah, and, and…

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You know, the great thing about getting old, Peter, is you can say stuff and you don't really care. And I've reached that point.

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I'm with you.

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And Brian, menopause helps as well.

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Let me tell you, you know, you're a young woman, but let me tell you, you know, I feel like, if I ain't going to speak my truth now, when the heck am I going to do so?

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Because I'll be in my box soon, it's too late. Let's go then.

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So… so, yeah, I believe… well, beyond belief, I know that we are eternal souls.

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That means that we are outside of time.

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That we're timeless beings, fundamentally.

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Who brought timing to the world through trauma.

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So it's not that… You know, so therefore, the model is just that.

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We are timeless beings.

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And when we… there is trauma.

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Time is created. Psychological time, if you like, is created. I mean, we won't go into metaphysics and other types of time, but let's stick with this,

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the psychological time is created.

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And that makes us beings of time.

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And beings of time forget that they're timeless.

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So the deep, deep work of time light is very spiritual, and it's saying, yeah, we've got to get through this.

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We've got to get through the depression, anxieties and stuff.

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To… for you to understand the processes that are going on with you.

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That are creating a self that identifies with these manifestations.

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And takes us deeper to what you actually are, which is this timeless being.

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And so that is the deep, deep

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profound element of the work, if you like. You know, which is not going to sit with everybody. They're going to say.

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buoy. That's rubbish.

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But even if you say FUI, it's rubbish, this still works. It works…

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without having that element. But, you know, part of that early download, Peter, was, you know, I mentioned about time, depression, and

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energy and stuff, but the other aspect was the free time model, which, which was also, you know, essential to the way.

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You know, it's a map of the human psyche, if you will, and… but it's, yeah, look, it's helpful, I think.

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Because it just demonstrates where you're sitting and where stuff comes from.

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And, you know, there's three aspects to it. One is the present self, which is everything that you're experiencing now, and you are within present self.

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Present self is

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everything is… it's the stars and the galaxies and the elephants and everything. It's everything you could imagine and see.

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and sense.

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And then the past cells, which are all memory, they're all…

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as you imagine from the past, there are three elements to it. One is psychological, which is the one we've really been talking about, trauma and stuff like that.

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There are two other elements to it. One is narrative.

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And then it's the memory of your own story. Peter was born so-and-so, brought up as a such-and-such, you know, I went to this school, your narrative.

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And the third, and the most benign, is, knowledge. We remember to do things.

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I remember how to tie on my shoes, put on my tie, which I don't do anymore, and so forth and so on. But these are acts of memory, you know, we can do that.

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And… but the ones that are interesting is narrative and psychological paths.

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And they work together, and they are symbiotic, and they reinforce the other.

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And, you know, what is fascinating about those two memory types is it's also the home of conflict, because if my narrative is that my people have been, you know,

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harmed, or destroyed, or whatever has happened to us in the past, you know, terrible stories of human history.

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Coupled with psychological hurts, That is the bedrock of conflict, because…

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Now, bringing… fusing those two together is where war begins.

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And, you know, if we could be able to sprinkle

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amnesia, all over the trouble spots of the world. Everyone forgets what they are, they're not Jewish or Arab, they don't remember all their past conflicts.

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Yeah, I know it's a trivial thing to say, but it would be so that the wars would stop, because they're fighting because of the memory.

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the memory of hurt, the memory of narrative. So there, there's those memory types going on.

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What is interesting with them, Peter, is that,

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You know, subsequent to my writing my books,

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There was research done amongst Alzheimer's dementia patients where they actually delineated those three memory types.

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It's really interesting. They said, and you, I suppose, I don't know if you've ever worked with people like that, but it is true, you sort of see that as well.

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They have a great, strong narrative memory sometimes, but…

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often they don't remember how to boil an egg, or they can boil an egg, but they can't remember the narrative.

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Yeah, and you can actually see that quite distinctly. I mean, for us, as fairly healthy people.

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you know, these get merged a bit, and it's not… they're not apparent or delineated, but, you know, they are there.

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And so that's part… and the final part of the psychic map is what I call the potential center.

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the possibility of anything happening and being able to happen. But the potential

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You know, and this is sort of back… quantum physics says the same thing about the observed effect, but, you know, the potential has to be filtered through

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These, these silks… till it becomes apparent in the world.

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So, really, your world is limited by your past.

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And what you think is possible.

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And whilst you could never become a flying horse, because that would go against the laws of nature, you know, we could do a lot more than we do.

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But we're filtered, and we are constricted.

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by our past, and what we think is possible. But furthermore, you know, this energy also

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provides the filter through which we see the world. You know, and if… I'm sure you dealt with lots of people like this who have been traumatized, and for whom the world is a hostile and frightening place.

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To you, it might be a very friendly and benign place, and you're looking at the same world, but actually you're not.

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So, it's the filter that makes the difference.

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And that comes from the past. So, yeah, so it's the three selves, part of the psyche map, if you like, psychic map.

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Which also is helpful for people to see. So, well, this is where this is coming from. This is why you think this, you know, and so on.

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You say, oh, look, there it is, you know. Oh, there's Cameron. No, no, no, that's your passing. You know, so it's just a useful map.

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So that is part of the therapeutic process. So, very generally, we talk about

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Time light in that wave.

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Amazing. So many things going on. I love that… I love that you talk about the…

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dementia patients, and certainly you can see some of the… they may well have lost their capacity to speak and things like that, yet they'll sit down in front of a piano.

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and play, like, you know, back in their 20s, and… Exactly. …every single night. Exactly.

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Exactly. And that knowledge is there. Which makes me curious, and I don't know if this is too left of center to ask, but…

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How then, because I know lots of your work is informed by spirituality and

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A philosophical knowing and a deeper…

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Sense, almost like… like beyond time, like what you, what you're talking about.

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When… when you… and sometimes you see these videos, when you come across someone that is quite young, but appears to have…

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a set of skills or gifts, and I think of music, so one of my daughters is training to be a music therapist herself.

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But they come across these…

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You know, tiny little 3- and 4-year-olds have this gift that they have never been trained in, or you'll read a story of someone that has a traumatic brain injury,

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or something like that, and then wakes up and has this ability to speak 8 languages.

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Like, is that… Is that indicating to us that there's certainly something beyond our physical

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Presence here in this world that…

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heavily drawing on from the past? Is that too left of field, or do you know what I'm saying? It's not drawing.

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from the past, necessarily. I mean, but having said that, when I said this about where does the story begin?

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You know, and, you know, you could go… I mean, it's fascinating, before we just answer your question, but it's fascinating looking at patterns, you know?

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Not only do we have patterns in our lives.

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And we keep repeating them, where we have money problems, relationship problems, whatever.

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go back, you know, and you'll find that your grandfather, your great-grandfather, great-great… yeah, would… might well have had similar patterns of whatever it might be, gambling, drinking, who knows?

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And,

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And you're bound to repeat it, unless you wake up, you know? So that comes from the past.

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Now, you're talking about…

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great genius or whatever. Well, that's… that's the potential. That's… that's… that's the world of all possibility, which they bring into the world, and that comes from that timeless state.

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I mean, yeah.

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probably the best example, as simple as Mozart, you know, our guest, who was at the age of 3 or so, was playing extraordinarily complex music, and the age of 5,

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wrote his first symphony, and it was so…

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complex that they thought he was scribbling

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notes as a small child, and someone said, no, this is music! And they started playing it, it's brilliant music!

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You know, I just thought, well, that was… that's the potential, that's the great potential of what we can be as timeless beings, you know?

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So that's where that comes from, you know, it's that it is that genius. But, you know, that can also be fused with

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great angst with the trauma of the past, you know, so that genius can also be expressed in the world as

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a struggle, as, you know, as a Beethoven as opposed to Mozart, you know, where Beethoven was forever using music, which came from this place to understand himself and understand the world through great struggle,

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you know? So, you know, but it all initially… it initially comes from what I call the potential.

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Yeah, yeah, I love it. And I know Lynn and I talked about, sort of, similar concepts, and her work, obviously, and the potential of the field, the field around us, and I know the work that you've both done together,

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you know, is so influenced by this. If… if someone's listening in, and perhaps in the work of

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seeing clients, working in the trauma space. I mean, what is it that you think

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You know, we… we need to be teaching about trauma processing that perhaps is missing from our traditional education programs in higher education.

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Well, look, I mean, as I say, you know, first say, Timeline is not here to take over the world.

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It's, to me, a complementary skill

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That enriches the work that you already do. And what it invites you to do is to go that little bit deeper.

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And to see… Much more about the processes that are taking place, but also to see that, you know…

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You know, when I, yeah, when I had anger issues, you know, I didn't want to have anger issues.

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And, you know, afterwards, I could have been embarrassed about it, or more likely.

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vindicate that anger, you know? I would justify the anger.

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Because I couldn't be wrong about this.

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But it wasn't me.

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That's the point, it wasn't me. It was the anger itself.

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that then brought up this person who then owned the anger. So I'd invite, you know, therapists to look deeper.

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Look deeper at the process of driving your

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Your clients, looking deeper at who is walking in through the clinic door.

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And think that maybe there's something deeper happening here. And the self that is presenting to me

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Is an element of the issue itself.

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And they're not separate. There's no… there is no independent agent walking Google's door.

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That this self that is walking through the door is a further expression of the depression itself.

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And those two are both driven by the process beneath them.

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That is driving all of that. And if you can start looking at it like that.

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And try to sort of think about, well, maybe time is this energy, maybe it is doing these things.

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You know, I mean, you know, presenting that thought to clients, I mean, we've done it with a number of people, they're serious breakthroughs, you know, they've never been invited to look at it in that way.

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And they said, wow, that's a real game changer. It really changes my understanding of what's happening to me, who I am, and why I'm doing it, you know?

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And, yeah, it's… it's… it's… it's a… I think it's a… I'd say, if I'm not gonna say who it is, I think it's a fantastic tool.

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I think it's a fantastic addition.

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To the therapeutic, sort of, kit, if you will.

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Yeah.

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And we're all about expanding the kit, because, yep, research done on all these individual, but, you know.

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Not one size fits all, and I think we have the responsibility as therapists to make sure we have lots of tools available to us, so I… I think so.

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Oh, I think so, yeah.

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So, Brian, if someone's listening in and kind of curious, and most of our audience are very open, if they're like, I want to explore this a little bit further, tell us about how someone… we've got your two books,

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so I will just,

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mention those again, just so that everyone can hear. So, Time Light, which was one of your original books, and The Untrue Story of You, which I think is such a fantastic title,

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both, yeah.

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Thank you.

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If someone wants to do a little bit more learning, what's the best place for them to start?

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Well, the book's not a bad place. I mean, that's published by Hay House, and you can get it on Amazon or someplace.

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But, you know, otherwise, come to the website, which is timelighttherapy.com.

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Timelight therapy, all one word. And,

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You can see lots of stuff there, I've done…

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free downloads, I've done free videos and stuff like that.

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But with the coming, eventual aim of encouraging people to become timeline therapists, to add that to the kit, if you like.

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And train in this modality.

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Because ultimately, that's really what I want. I want…

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you know, we all… we're all on the same side, we all want the world to be a saner, better place.

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And, yeah, I need more timelight therapies

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out there. I mean, I've recorded a whole training session. I've got the first cohort of therapists graduating right now, but we need loads more.

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We need lots of people out there who

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are interested and, yeah, maybe want to embrace the timeline model, and

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you know, in that way, I think we… We may help.

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Or people to suddenly connect with their own timeless state.

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Yeah, I love that. I love that. And Brian, you've been so gracious sharing with us just, your own story, but where… where the possibilities lie in this, and I think that's the one thing that struck me about this is,

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yeah, we are timeless.

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And the nature of the energy connected to those traumas, and potentially

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these things are highly, you know, malleable, and if we've got the right tools, we can absolutely, you know, get that freedom.

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And to be honest, across the screen, you strike me as a happy, joyful person.

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So, absolutely. I truly am.

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So good, so good. And it's just been wonderful to unpack a little bit this with you, and share it with the world so that, yeah, we can get some more time-light therapists

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out there helping more people in this space as well. So, if you're listening in, everybody, and you've got a moment, all of the details are there in the show note.

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Please share this with someone that you might think

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could benefit too, from either, you know, consulting with a Timelight therapist, but also training yourself and adding another kit to your own toolkit for clients.

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Brian, thank you so much, and a big hello to Lynne next time you see her, of course, as well.

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I shall, which I'll see you in about 30 seconds, so I'll do that. That's fantastic. Thank you, Peter, you've been a brilliant interviewer, if I may say, and God bless you.

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Thank you. Thank you so much. And I am in your corner of the world, early in 2027, so I might try to actually, pop in and even say hello.

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Definitely love to meet up with you. I have an English cuppa.

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Oh, love a cup of tea. Thank you, everybody, thanks for listening in to another episode, and we'll see you again soon in the fourth wave in therapy.

 

 

 

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