In this episode, Peta interviewed Dr. Lori Hops, a licensed psychologist based in California, about her work on division consciousness versus unity consciousness. Dr. Hops explained division consciousness as a toxic form of separation that leads to tearing down rather than building, using the analogy of oxen quarreling and leaving themselves vulnerable to attack. She described unity consciousness as a collaborative approach that brings the best out in others while acknowledging and integrating both positive and negative aspects. The conversation explored how division consciousness manifests through fear of lack, fatigue, and feelings of isolation, and Dr. Hops emphasized the importance of energy-based and mind-body approaches alongside traditional psychology to address these deeper issues. She shared her personal journey discovering energy psychology techniques like Reiki and EFT, which led her to develop practical tools for helping clients shift from division to unity consciousness.

Takeaways

• Division consciousness tears down through separation, while unity consciousness integrates differences into something that serves more than it hinders.
• Operating from fear or fatigue often signals deeper issues around judgment, control, and expectation.
• Self-help and mindset shifts alone aren't always enough to resolve deeply ingrained subconscious patterns.
• Energy psychology approaches, like EFT and Reiki, can access and shift patterns that traditional therapy struggles to reach.
• Personal life experiences, such as a child's health crisis, can spark a therapist's openness to alternative healing methods.
• EFT now has scientific validation and is recognized by the APA for continuing education credits.
• Feeling "stuck" can be addressed by getting curious about its source, breathing through discomfort, and envisioning solutions already in place.
• Emerging research and frameworks suggest healing tools like Reiki and EFT have effects beyond placebo and are broadly applicable across therapeutic modalities.

Please note: this transcript is unedited.

0
00:00:02.630 --> 00:00:26.099
Welcome back, everybody, and thank you for listening in to The Fourth Wave in Therapy. I'm very excited today, and I was just saying off-air, it's, it's a selfish kind of excitement, because I get to have these wonderful conversations with people, but today's guest with me is Dr. Laurie Hopps. Now, Laurie is a licensed psychologist based in California with decades of experience in private practice.

1
00:00:26.100 --> 00:00:37.959
She blends traditional psychology with energy-based and mind-body approaches, drawing from cognitive behavioural therapy, transpersonal awareness, and a range of intuitive and expressive practices.

2
00:00:37.960 --> 00:00:52.799
Now, Laurie is also the host of the podcast Healing Tips from the Heart, and the link is below, because I know everyone listening in here will want to listen to that podcast. And she explores intuition and healing from practitioners and guides all around the world.

3
00:00:52.860 --> 00:01:03.910
Laurie's work focuses on helping individuals shift from what she calls division consciousness, a win-lose way of seeing the world, to unity consciousness.

4
00:01:03.910 --> 00:01:19.930
Heads up, you know what we're going to talk about today, which is a more collaborative and expansive approach to living. Through practical tools and energy practices, she teaches ways to create more harmony, connection, and possibility in both personal and collective life.

5
00:01:19.930 --> 00:01:26.059
Which I'm so excited, and it's the very reason that we have Laurie here with us today. Thank you so much for joining me.

6
00:01:26.540 --> 00:01:33.059
Oh, I am beyond thrilled to be talking with you today and sharing with the audience.

7
00:01:33.090 --> 00:01:50.380
I think that this topic is very timely, and I'm excited to see what we're going to create together as we talk about it. Thank you so much, Laurie. And I would love to start with what I just sort of ended with in your bio, and of course, there's a more extensive bio below, everybody.

8
00:01:50.720 --> 00:02:03.560
How do you define this division consciousness? And obviously that's compared to the unity consciousness. And I'm glad you said there's probably no more timely, you know.

9
00:02:03.590 --> 00:02:18.069
moment in time, you know, whenever someone's listening to this, but certainly sort of post-pandemic and things like that, as to, you know, the way of the Western world in particular. But how do you… how do you define division consciousness?

10
00:02:19.950 --> 00:02:28.370
Great question. I think that it's a matter of looking at things that we're not accustomed to looking at.

11
00:02:28.470 --> 00:02:44.670
It's that old analogy of a fish in water, you know, that you become used to your own environment, and so you don't often analyze it. But I think that what happened, at least for me, is that I started to feel stronger discontent,

12
00:02:45.010 --> 00:02:53.369
A feeling of separation, of isolation, of feeling, at odds, even inside of myself.

13
00:02:53.610 --> 00:03:05.550
And I'm wondering, where does this come from? And I was curious to see, are other people feeling this? And I think the resounding answer is yes, in so many ways. And so, I started to notice

14
00:03:05.910 --> 00:03:19.619
the idea of division that isn't from mathematics, we all need division in our world, but I would say a toxic division is really what I'm talking about. The idea that

15
00:03:19.870 --> 00:03:26.509
The separation becomes so extreme, That we wind up tearing things down that we really want to build.

16
00:03:27.040 --> 00:03:36.480
That things that you would hope for become toxic or poisoned, or that you feel that you're moving against your own rhythm.

17
00:03:36.910 --> 00:03:39.500
Whether it's personal or collective.

18
00:03:39.770 --> 00:03:50.430
And so this notion is, framed in one of Aesop's fables of the four oxen and the lion. I don't know if you know that one.

19
00:03:50.600 --> 00:03:56.559
But it's probably commonly known, but just briefly, the idea is that the lion wants to come

20
00:03:56.690 --> 00:04:11.179
to, you know, attack the oxen, but they gather together the oxen with their tails together, signaling when they're in danger, and their antler… their antlers out. And… antlers is the wrong word.

21
00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:14.839
I do know, you don't know. Yes.

22
00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:18.329
Oxen have horns, right? They do.

23
00:04:18.550 --> 00:04:26.740
Yeah, so they stand together with their tails together, alerting when the lion is coming, and their horns out, and so the lion backs off.

24
00:04:26.940 --> 00:04:35.439
But when the oxen start to quarrel, they separate from one another, and in doing so, they leave themselves open to attack.

25
00:04:35.660 --> 00:04:46.460
And so, the lion's happy, because the lion gets to eat, but it's really not serving the collective in a long-term way.

26
00:04:46.620 --> 00:05:03.900
And so, the opposite of that division is unity. And so, of course, we add in mathematics. But we can have unity that serves more rather than less, that makes us collaborate, that brings the best out in one another.

27
00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:18.959
But I'm gonna go a step further and just say that this is not a Pollyannish view of reality, where you ignore shadow, where you ignore differences, where you ignore what's going on that is painful.

28
00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:24.060
To me, in my definition, unity consciousness brings all of it together.

29
00:05:24.510 --> 00:05:28.869
Where nothing is lost, including the lessons learned from division.

30
00:05:29.300 --> 00:05:32.720
And it informs a third way of being.

31
00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:37.069
That is larger than division.

32
00:05:37.330 --> 00:05:52.860
or coming together in a polarized way of, let's say, good and bad, off and on, and so on. And so, to me, that is what Unity Consciousness is asking us to do, is to, take the best and worst of ourselves.

33
00:05:53.150 --> 00:05:57.610
And create something that serves more than hinders.

34
00:05:59.090 --> 00:06:14.809
Yeah, I'm thinking, you know, coming to mind, you know, the gestalt way of, you know, the sum of the parts is more than the whole, this kind of idea. If someone's listening in and has just caught that definition and kind of thought, maybe I'm feeling…

35
00:06:14.860 --> 00:06:33.240
I'm relating a little bit to this. What signs, what did you notice in yourself, or was it just a sense, was it an outward behaviour that you were noticing? How would someone know that perhaps they were coming, or they were feeling more from this division consciousness?

36
00:06:33.280 --> 00:06:36.989
kind of place of living. What… how would someone know?

37
00:06:37.400 --> 00:06:42.969
I think it comes down to asking yourself, am I operating out of a fear of lack?

38
00:06:44.210 --> 00:06:56.870
What's motivating my choices and decisions? I can be generous in some circumstances, but what makes me get tight, or nervous, or saying no, or being cautious, or maybe jaded?

39
00:06:56.870 --> 00:07:06.350
Or maybe losing energy in my body, or feeling disenfranchised, depressed, cynical.

40
00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:21.020
Or angry, even, you know? That can be it too, or fearful. All of these things are natural reactions to changes in our environment and ourselves and part of life, but when they become predominant.

41
00:07:21.280 --> 00:07:33.949
Then you start to have to say, there must be a different way, a better way. This isn't how we're meant to live. We're meant to live with a balance between pulling in and being self-reflective.

42
00:07:33.950 --> 00:07:41.720
And saying things are wrong, and then building, and reaching out, and using resources, and having a flow of life force energy within us.

43
00:07:41.760 --> 00:07:51.010
So, it was a combination for me of, probably achieving a lot of outer goals that I had set for myself, personally and professionally.

44
00:07:51.010 --> 00:08:03.680
And also seeing the state of the world going through the pandemic, seeing illness and difficulty, and feeling kind of a weightedness, like things were heavier than they needed to be.

45
00:08:03.740 --> 00:08:15.490
And even though things seemed stiff or broken or, despairing in the outside world, I didn't want to lose my anchor to my vitality.

46
00:08:15.510 --> 00:08:31.960
And so I started to look for answers in myself that I felt were useful, and then started to share it with other people, and then they started to use it as well, and we build together. Sometimes collective despair leads to creative solutions.

47
00:08:31.960 --> 00:08:37.550
So… I like that. Wow,

48
00:08:37.620 --> 00:08:44.789
I want to go there, but I'm just going to park that one for a minute, because I'm sure anyone's listening, kind of going, okay, how do we get to that part?

49
00:08:45.530 --> 00:08:59.009
But if I can just track back a little bit, because the word I heard, and I guess a couple of words, fear standing out, so operating from perhaps some sort of fear, but fatigue stood out to me in what you just said as well, that

50
00:08:59.010 --> 00:09:13.779
the heaviness or even depression, like fatigue, it might be that someone's like, I just feel tired in my life. I'm probably guilty of saying this sometimes too, because you just look at the demands that are happening. But it's like, is that coming from…

51
00:09:13.890 --> 00:09:30.330
some sort of, yeah, like, division or separateness, you know, that kind of place instead. Is that a red flag? I'm really curious about that, the fear and fatigue kind of element. Yeah, can you talk to us a little bit more about that?

52
00:09:31.030 --> 00:09:38.480
Yeah, I identified a couple of common themes when we're really in that division. I win, you lose.

53
00:09:38.640 --> 00:09:49.250
you win, I lose kind of finite resources, the universe doesn't have my back, and I see it related to judgment, control, and expectation.

54
00:09:49.710 --> 00:09:50.670
So…

55
00:09:50.920 --> 00:10:08.299
there's reasons for fatigue and fear that have nothing to do with anything that we're talking about. There's physiological, medical, you know, environmental, you know, and so check out all of that. But if that has been checked out, and it still is there, and you're feeling like

56
00:10:08.390 --> 00:10:22.910
a wall between yourself and the outside world that you can't get through, or no matter how hard you try or relax or rejuvenate, it's still there, that sinking feeling, whether it's fear or fatigue.

57
00:10:22.930 --> 00:10:34.409
Then start to get curious about some of the other things that are going on for you. It might be a phase of life, it might be a reasonable response to insanity.

58
00:10:34.790 --> 00:10:50.060
It might be an invitation to see things differently, and it may be something deep from the past that's coming up that is safe enough now to look at. So, I would say look at judgment, control, and expectation.

59
00:10:50.210 --> 00:11:03.269
as a three-pronged approach to getting more curious about what that fatigue is about, the fear, or whatever it is that the person's responding to. The thing that makes you feel alone, isolated.

60
00:11:03.660 --> 00:11:04.820
Hopeless.

61
00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:11.039
And that there really is no point, sometimes, in trying.

62
00:11:11.420 --> 00:11:13.450
It's like you've lost your spark.

63
00:11:15.020 --> 00:11:34.690
I don't know if that answers your question. Absolutely, and I think you're right. We always sort of look at that hopelessness state as, yeah, being a real clue to something a bit deeper that might be there. And I know, because we share a common world in the EFT tapping kind of research and practice area.

64
00:11:34.810 --> 00:11:40.330
I know that you embrace energy psychology as part of this, but why do you think

65
00:11:40.860 --> 00:11:58.959
you know, lots of our practitioners listening in, or, you know, anyone into mindset, or, you know, kind of reframing and kind of positive ways of trying to view the world. Why do you think sometimes that's perhaps not enough to shift what we're talking about?

66
00:11:58.970 --> 00:12:05.140
We can read all the books, we can, you know, try all the, you know, self-help practices.

67
00:12:05.830 --> 00:12:20.810
And I can understand sometimes people end up with a sense of dissatisfaction or frustration that they try all the things from a mindset point of view, and even maybe behavioural, but it's not enough. Why do you think we need…

68
00:12:20.920 --> 00:12:23.080
And almost like another prong.

69
00:12:23.480 --> 00:12:26.920
And perhaps something that embraces the body or energy.

70
00:12:27.820 --> 00:12:42.459
Great question, and I know you know that I'm a big enthusiast for this, and it was hard won, because that was the world I was brought up in, the materialist and cognitive behavioral world, with a little bit of psychodynamic, kind of, in the secret background.

71
00:12:42.490 --> 00:12:50.000
And a lot of my people teaching me didn't really believe in emotion. So…

72
00:12:50.160 --> 00:12:59.969
I was an intuitive, so I felt, like, radically separated from the mainstream, and knew that I could do more to help my clients than I was being taught.

73
00:13:00.060 --> 00:13:12.999
So when I discovered, first, Reiki, and then energy psychology practices, including tapping, and then moving on to other things like the Blue Diamond and logosynthesis, Bankston Method, and so on.

74
00:13:13.010 --> 00:13:21.850
It opened up a whole other world for me and for my clients. And I think the reason why is because we tend to believe

75
00:13:21.870 --> 00:13:24.109
That through sheer willpower.

76
00:13:24.500 --> 00:13:35.159
through manifestation and through desire, that that is sufficient to change our ways. And it does work, but not for things that are deeply ingrained.

77
00:13:35.410 --> 00:13:51.269
In other aspects of our being that are more invisible, like the influence of society, or what we've been programmed to believe from an early age that really settles into the subconscious mind in a hypnotic induction.

78
00:13:51.370 --> 00:14:05.389
And you can't use the mechanisms that we've talked about, the mind and emotion, to get at and unleash in a permanent way and reconfigure those deeper anchors.

79
00:14:05.390 --> 00:14:11.480
And they go without notice sometimes. You don't even know you're under the influence of these programs.

80
00:14:11.730 --> 00:14:23.579
But, the cool thing is that when you do use energy or somatic practices, like energy tapping with meridians, or using chakra, or other energy systems.

81
00:14:23.780 --> 00:14:41.039
It's like the exact key that you need to unlock these hidden passages, and even without awareness, it works. And it works quickly and deeply, and you really create a whole new landscape for understanding the world.

82
00:14:41.520 --> 00:14:49.750
In a way that opens doors that are… it's really quite remarkable and hard to believe, and therefore, many people are skeptical.

83
00:14:50.010 --> 00:15:04.109
Including myself, I was brought up to, as a scientist practitioner, to believe that if it's too easy, and too fast, and too simple, it's probably snake oil. And to be… to be skeptical and doubting.

84
00:15:04.260 --> 00:15:19.310
But thankfully, we have people like you creating research showing that not only what the clinicians and clients know that this works, but that we have data to support it as well. And an abundance of data, with more all the time.

85
00:15:19.510 --> 00:15:21.860
So, I guess I would say to people.

86
00:15:22.210 --> 00:15:24.430
Don't take my word for it.

87
00:15:24.640 --> 00:15:31.789
Try it yourself. Find a trusted other who understands this work. It needs to be done gently, with respect.

88
00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:46.410
For where you are in your personal life in that moment, so that you don't bring up so much resistance and fear to something new, but enough curiosity to challenge yourself to be a little bit different than you were when you started.

89
00:15:46.530 --> 00:16:08.910
And the more you build on it, the better it is. And the proof is in the pudding when you start to live differently, and those around you sense a change and say, something's different about you, I don't know what it is, but tell me more. I want some of that for myself. Yeah, and I certainly, even remember my own siblings back in the day with my early journey in this kind of work. They're like.

90
00:16:09.290 --> 00:16:33.960
How come you have different conversations with our parents than what we do? What's happened? And I'm like, oh, I didn't notice, but obviously the result of change work. Laurie, I am curious, though, because we share a very similar kind of traditional training, and certainly that was mine. I didn't have psychodynamic hiding in the background. I probably had gestalt and transactional analysis that was sort of just there.

91
00:16:34.150 --> 00:16:38.330
with the mainstream gold standard approaches, but what was it

92
00:16:38.330 --> 00:16:57.550
that made you curious, or when did you go looking? You mentioned in there that you wanted to be of best service for your clients, and I'm guessing that might have driven you looking, but what was it for you where you kind of went, hmm, maybe the tools that I've got available to me are not enough, there might be something else out there.

93
00:16:58.030 --> 00:17:11.070
I love that question, and really, the turning point for me was when I was in my early 30s, and, had my first child, and who was, had health problems.

94
00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:15.260
And so, the search did not begin as…

95
00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:31.810
a magnanimous sharing with my clients, because I didn't quite know where to go with, academically or as a professional. But I knew that the medical model was only taking her health so far. So that's when I started to learn Reiki.

96
00:17:31.870 --> 00:17:49.830
energy healing techniques, and about homeopathy. I used myself as a guinea pig, and went to different practitioners, craniosacral and so on, and I let… had them work on me first to see what it was like, if I could trust the practitioner and the approach, and try to understand it. It was…

97
00:17:49.880 --> 00:17:56.359
Deeply confusing to my brain to understand something like homeopathy, where you're going to, like.

98
00:17:56.630 --> 00:18:11.040
this level of, you know, where there's really nothing there but water and information, like, what? But I saw that things worked, and they started to work with her. And that's when I started to say, oh my, there's so much more here.

99
00:18:11.040 --> 00:18:24.100
Plus, my intuitive senses really came online even stronger. I could no longer deny them on a daily, moment-to-moment basis once I became pregnant and had my daughter. They were already there, but I was pushing them away.

100
00:18:24.100 --> 00:18:42.019
So I knew, to be honest with myself, and to not… and to be stable, I had to start incorporating invisible, unseen forces, and know the difference between what was helpful and what wasn't. And so I used myself as a guinea pig, and only after many years of that did I slowly start to just

101
00:18:42.020 --> 00:18:46.570
I put a toe in the water with my clients about my intuitive abilities.

102
00:18:46.700 --> 00:18:58.990
saying, do you mind if I share this with you? It's coming intuitively, and my clients would say, if it's good for me, I don't care if it's your dead grandma, or from the newspaper, or a dream you had, just tell me what I need to know.

103
00:18:58.990 --> 00:19:07.570
So I got more confident, and then I discovered energy psychology, and then that opened the door to everything else. It was the combination of

104
00:19:07.610 --> 00:19:13.370
The, tapping techniques of how effective they were, and the science behind them.

105
00:19:13.450 --> 00:19:24.920
And the fact that we were allowed to get continuing ed as a psychologist from the APA for teaching this material, that I said, I have landed where I need to be.

106
00:19:24.990 --> 00:19:49.940
And I will just, give a shout out to our colleagues at ASEP, the Association for Comprehensive Energy Psychology, for absolutely having EFT recognised in energy psychology as part of the CEUs with the APA, so I'm so glad they drive that, and, you know, we absolutely are grateful for that, because it means, yeah, psychologists and other, kind of, licensed professionals can access that.

107
00:19:50.190 --> 00:19:54.869
professional development and claim it. So, shout out to our friends at ASEP.

108
00:19:55.090 --> 00:19:56.230
Laurie…

109
00:19:56.900 --> 00:20:15.400
I'm thinking of my own journey parallel. It's very similar in that, you know, same kind of thing. It was my sister who was my guinea pig, because she lived with me at the time, and I'm like, I've learned this new technique, do you have a problem? You know, and she would let me try things, which is fabulous, she's in the teaching world. But…

110
00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:25.400
If someone's listening in, and they're relating, or they're kind of, you know, curious, but they are feeling stuck, perhaps, you know, they've got some…

111
00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:39.920
you know, sense of division consciousness that they can identify. And the whole idea of unity consciousness is obviously incredibly appealing, and I'm so glad you mentioned, you know, the ox and the lion.

112
00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:59.570
Because I've heard similar things about the animal kingdom, that they will come together to protect, you know, even what you would think are dissimilar, animal kind of, you know, groupings will protect each other if they need to against a common threat, that type of thing. If someone is listening and they're like, they feel stuck.

113
00:20:59.790 --> 00:21:04.430
Is there anything they could do after listening? Is there anything that…

114
00:21:04.570 --> 00:21:13.779
Could be self-applied in this moment, whether it's to the fear or fatigue or even scarcity mindset, anything like that.

115
00:21:14.120 --> 00:21:14.980
Yes.

116
00:21:15.230 --> 00:21:16.580
I'm glad you asked.

117
00:21:16.730 --> 00:21:28.450
I think that the first thing is to open your mind to the possibility that things are not fixed, finite, or lacking, that we actually have access to the infinite.

118
00:21:28.630 --> 00:21:44.969
Whether that's the biology of yourself, or a spiritual belief, or the universe, or whatever it is, to open yourself to the possibility that there might be things that you can do, and solutions that are here that you're just not seeing, or having access to in the moment.

119
00:21:45.650 --> 00:22:01.519
And then find out in your own body, or in your own awareness, what it is you want to focus on. So don't take everything in the world, and don't take anything that's too massive or too deep, especially by yourself. But something that's, like, a mild to moderate.

120
00:22:01.730 --> 00:22:04.889
Problem, or discomfort that you're having.

121
00:22:05.340 --> 00:22:08.690
And get curious about it. Is it…

122
00:22:08.890 --> 00:22:15.589
how do you know it's there? Is it in your body? Is it a mind state? Is it a belief? Is it something someone told you?

123
00:22:16.230 --> 00:22:21.150
Hone in on one aspect of how you know it's coming to you.

124
00:22:21.530 --> 00:22:23.800
Feel it and breathe through it.

125
00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:26.279
So that you're not overwhelmed.

126
00:22:27.070 --> 00:22:34.710
And then, imagine that the solution that you need, even though you don't know what it is, has already arrived.

127
00:22:34.930 --> 00:22:41.140
Because we're always in the here and now, past, present, and future is an illusion of our 3D world.

128
00:22:41.410 --> 00:22:45.630
Everything already exists, including the solution that you're gonna seek.

129
00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:50.739
And then do a little bit of time travel, and invite your future self with that wisdom.

130
00:22:50.860 --> 00:22:58.960
Or your angels, or guides, or ancestors, or whoever it is that loves you. And come back into this moment and give you just a hint.

131
00:22:59.960 --> 00:23:02.420
Nothing big, something subtle.

132
00:23:02.650 --> 00:23:05.100
That you can take for your next step.

133
00:23:05.750 --> 00:23:23.860
Even if it's not here already, and you can't hone in on what it is, set it as your intention, that it can come in a conversation, or in a dream, or in an aha moment that happens next month, or someone who comes into your life suddenly, or something you remember, and then let it go.

134
00:23:24.080 --> 00:23:26.470
Take another breath and let it go.

135
00:23:26.730 --> 00:23:37.719
Because you have to hold this duality of, I want, and I already have. I am here, and I'm already receiving. It's already solved, and I've moved on.

136
00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:43.549
So, that grasping, but also the letting go. It's so important to have both of those.

137
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:51.780
So that would be my quick and dirty little… Yeah. No, I was doing it at the same time that you were mentioning, and I'm like, I've got plenty of things I could pick from here.

138
00:23:52.170 --> 00:23:54.130
I love that, because…

139
00:23:54.940 --> 00:24:12.679
I love myself even, visiting my future self 20 years down the track, so just as a visualization, sometimes if there's a problem to ask about, and how did I get through this, that kind of thing, and it's such a lovely way, yeah, to bring back. But I love that concept of…

140
00:24:12.780 --> 00:24:19.669
Holding what is true now, but also the solution, and, you know, letting them go, so…

141
00:24:19.670 --> 00:24:35.370
That's brilliant. Everyone, I hope you have a look at the transcript if you want those words again, but yeah, that's really good. Not down and dirty at all, Laurie, absolutely, inspirational, so that's fantastic, thank you. I am curious, and I just… as we're starting to wind up.

142
00:24:35.550 --> 00:24:40.969
what you've noticed, perhaps, you know, how you want to answer this, but do you think…

143
00:24:41.340 --> 00:24:48.229
the division consciousness, or what we've been talking about, do you think that that is…

144
00:24:49.280 --> 00:24:56.100
Specific to certain cultures or upbringing? And do you see differences in…

145
00:24:57.580 --> 00:25:05.029
perhaps, you know, different sectors in the world. Do you think that at a cultural level, Western countries

146
00:25:05.330 --> 00:25:17.370
are more, we might say, individualistic, if we're doing research, versus collectivist. Do you think there's something in that, or is this becoming just worldwide?

147
00:25:18.390 --> 00:25:19.490
Both and.

148
00:25:19.660 --> 00:25:28.469
And so I'm always careful to say with the word Western, and I don't have a good, alternative term that I've found.

149
00:25:28.580 --> 00:25:35.780
But we have a rich history in the Western world of the Indigenous and Native cultures.

150
00:25:36.360 --> 00:25:43.260
that are not colonialized. So maybe it's the non-colonialized Western world that I'm referring to at the moment.

151
00:25:43.550 --> 00:25:55.040
Though… not all, but some are based not on hierarchy necessarily as the only way, and division consciousness, and win-lose, but on relationship

152
00:25:55.060 --> 00:26:03.660
and collectivism. And the idea that everyone has something to give and to receive, that everyone is of value.

153
00:26:03.820 --> 00:26:15.210
And that we have different moments and times when we can plug in to scarcity, to abundance, to need, to satisfaction, and all the rest. And so.

154
00:26:16.180 --> 00:26:25.209
Maybe there is more division in general on the planet right now, regardless of those other philosophies or ways of seeing the world.

155
00:26:25.270 --> 00:26:38.460
We, you know, astrologers talk about the, you know, Pisces to Aquarius, and, you know, that there's all kinds of changes going on in terms of where we are in the universe and our solar system, moving through all these things.

156
00:26:39.080 --> 00:26:49.559
I think that we are at an age of shift, and we haven't gotten there yet, but we're seeing what's falling apart, and what's not yet built.

157
00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:59.310
So regardless of the philosophy, the culture, the time, the religion, the personal belief structure, these…

158
00:26:59.450 --> 00:27:02.850
Tools are useful because we all face

159
00:27:03.150 --> 00:27:12.880
polarization. Everybody comes to a point of feeling, especially when they're afraid, separation, disturbance, lack.

160
00:27:13.430 --> 00:27:21.410
lack of imagination and creativity. It's part and parcel of our humanness. And so whatever we can do to break through to that.

161
00:27:22.070 --> 00:27:30.769
From community, from healthy community, because sometimes we can't muster it ourselves, then… then we're all helping one another.

162
00:27:31.430 --> 00:27:32.800
Absolutely.

163
00:27:33.350 --> 00:27:39.869
Laurie, if you wanted one thing for people to take away from listening in today, what would that be?

164
00:27:41.670 --> 00:27:43.350
Start where you are.

165
00:27:44.730 --> 00:27:51.589
don't worry about, but I need to read another book, or I didn't quite catch that, let me look back on the transcript.

166
00:27:51.890 --> 00:28:01.269
Check in with where you are right now. That is your best teacher for what it is that you are going through, what it is that your next step might be.

167
00:28:01.390 --> 00:28:11.429
And also, what treasures you bring, because no matter what you're going through, there's always things to be grateful for that you've learned, usually hard-won lessons.

168
00:28:11.780 --> 00:28:17.030
And some sort of an internal wisdom, or a connection to something that's true for yourself.

169
00:28:17.360 --> 00:28:21.030
So I would say just start where you are, and have that be enough.

170
00:28:21.470 --> 00:28:26.550
Because that's where the point of power always is, and transformation and change is in the here and now.

171
00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:44.979
Yeah, and I was talking to a graduate I supervised recently, and we were talking about the body being your house and your home, and yeah, like, the foundation is you. So, so perfect. Laurie, how can people continue, listening to your work? Tell us a little bit about how they can find you.

172
00:28:45.420 --> 00:28:54.249
Great, so if you'd like to hear podcasts that I have done, you can go to hopshealingtips.com, that's H-O-P-S,

173
00:28:54.450 --> 00:29:08.010
healingtips.com, and all of the 70-plus interviews with guests are there. And if you'd like to know more about me personally, you can go to my website, Dr. Lori Hopps.

174
00:29:08.070 --> 00:29:31.870
D-R-L-O-R-I-H-O-P-S dot com, and I'm sure that you'll have that information in the program notes as well. We do, thank you so much. Laurie, it's been an absolute joy to connect with you like this. I know we've met each other a few times in person at different conferences, but just to go a little bit deeper and, yeah, hear your work, I think such a gift to the world, and I hope everyone

175
00:29:31.870 --> 00:29:39.669
does listen in to healing tips from the heart, and learns a little bit more about your work. I think this is absolutely phenomenal.

176
00:29:39.670 --> 00:29:40.370
And…

177
00:29:40.370 --> 00:29:50.320
there's no greater time to kind of, you know, really come back to self and then connect out to others as well. So, thank you so much for sharing all of this wisdom today.

178
00:29:50.600 --> 00:30:05.559
My pleasure, and it's such a treat to work with you, and see you as well, and know you, and be born at the same time. True, true. Thanks so much, everyone, and we hope that you listen in again to another episode, so, we'll see you again, down the track.

Embodied Intuition and Consultation - www.drlorihops.com

Podcast - Healing Tips from the Heart: Intuition with Helpers, Healers and Guides

hopshealingtips.com

Album "Light" affirmations and soundscape with Lori Hops, Ph.D., and Greg Carpenter, LMFT - https://gregcarpenter.bandcamp.com/album/light