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In this engaging conversation, Dr. Carol Look, a founding EFT master, shares her journey from traditional psychotherapy to energy psychology, emphasizing the transformative power of EFT tapping and gratitude. The discussion explores the concepts of healing, anxiety, resistance, and family patterns, while highlighting the importance of finding one's own 'yes' and the scientific benefits of gratitude practices. Carol's insights provide valuable tools for therapists and clients alike, showcasing how tapping can facilitate emotional healing and personal growth.

Takeaways

• Carol Look is a founding EFT master with over 25 years of experience.

•  EFT tapping can lead to significant personal transformations, including relief from insomnia.

•  Borrowing benefits occur when therapists tap alongside clients, calming their own nervous systems.

•  Healing is defined as feeling calmer and being able to handle stress more effectively.

•  Anxiety can manifest in various behaviors, such as smoking or overeating, as a form of self-soothing.

•  Resistance in therapy often indicates a protective mechanism against change.

•  Family patterns can influence individual behaviors and emotional challenges.

•  Finding your 'yes' is crucial for making authentic decisions in life.

•  Gratitude practices have scientifically proven benefits for mental and physical health.

•  Tapping can help clear blocks to success and align one's goals with personal values.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Energy Psychology and EFT Tapping

01:39 The Journey to Discovering EFT Tapping

04:05 Understanding Borrowing Benefits in EFT

06:31 Defining Healing in Therapy

09:04 The Connection Between Anxiety and Addictive Behaviors

12:02 Exploring Resistance in Therapy

15:27 Family Patterns and Loyalty in Behavior

19:44 Finding Your Yes: The Importance of Personal Alignment

23:24 The Superpower of Gratitude and Its Benefits

Keywords: EFT, energy psychology, gratitude, healing, anxiety, resistance, family patterns,
self-sabotage, tapping, psychotherapy

Note: this is unedited.

Peta Stapleton (00:01.602)
Welcome back everyone and thank you for joining us for another episode of the fourth wave in therapy. I'm a little bit excited today to welcome to your listening ears and our platform the very the one and only my very good friend Dr. Carol Look. Now Carol is a psychotherapist and if you're familiar in the EFT world you will know she's a founding EFT master.

She's an international speaker and she is a bestselling author and her latest two books, absolutely a bestsellers, The Yes Code, Transforming Sabotage into Success and Yes, Thank You, tapping into the superpower of gratitude. And we are going to touch on both of these topics today. Now, Carol combines her traditional psychotherapy background with clinical hypnosis and of course now advanced applications of EFT tapping because she has been around since the beginning.

Carol has used tapping for more than 25 years. She is world renowned. We have welcomed her here in Australia as well. And she presents all over the world. All of Carol's details are below, including some of the web links that we will mention today. Thank you so much for joining me, Carol.

Carol (01:11.074)
Dita, I am so happy to be here with you and with your audience. Thank you.

Peta Stapleton (01:14.958)
Thank you so much. And it's funny that we were saying thank you because we are going to get into this topic of gratitude today. But I really want to start. You have been one of the early voices in energy psychology, but particularly from a clinical application point of view, you're an EFT founding master. But can you let us know a little bit about I mean, you came from a traditional psychotherapy and clinical hypnosis background. How on earth did you find energy psychology?

Carol (01:43.788)
It's so funny. yes, traditional psychotherapist. Then I got a doctoral degree in hypnosis and somebody in my hypnosis class said, if you think hypnosis is fun, you ought to try this strange new tapping technique. And I did not know on earth what she was talking about. And I took my first class with Fred Gallow and I started working on my clients because I was a hypnotist. So people come to you for anxiety, quit smoking, weight loss.

breathing issues, right? And they say, you're my last resort. I've tried everything. And I started saying to them, I just learned a new stress relief technique. I'll do it for five minutes with you. I'll still do hypnosis, but I'll do this for five minutes. And if you don't like it, I'll give you the five minutes at the end of your session. And one after the other, they all said yes. And then they started saying, they'd come back the next week and say, what did you do? What did you, what's going on here? I haven't had cravings. I haven't had anxiety. What's going on?

And then I kept doing it and kept doing it. I was as skeptical as they could be. I kept doing it. And then that's the first time that I had a massive change in myself, which in my insomnia went away. And that was sort of the beginning. I thought it was great. I loved it. My clients loved it, but I hadn't had a wow experience personally until my insomnia. And then it was like, that's it. That's it. I'm sold.

Peta Stapleton (03:08.78)
That's amazing. Tell me, did you tap directly on insomnia or do you think it was just your regular application on yourself in session with clients or maybe even your own personal tapping on other things? Was it that you just became more regulated and that impacted your sleep issues?

Carol (03:25.752)
Yes. Yes. I was tapping on people's anxiety about their cravings, weight loss, right? When they would come in for the hypnosis. And I never directly tapped on my anxiety for sleep issues. And suddenly one day I woke up and said, I think I went to sleep last night early. I think I fell asleep. And so it was shocking because I didn't know you could do that. didn't know that my tip, because I don't touch people, I tap on myself and teach them how to do it, right? Face to face.

and that was regulating my nervous system. I didn't know that back then. I didn't know anything about it. I was just playing with a new tool that I thought was great and that people loved, and that's what happened. So that was an early borrowing benefits.

Peta Stapleton (04:11.916)
Yeah, and I think that's probably worth mentioning or unpacking a little bit more because anyone listening in that might even, you know, have heard of EFT tapping because it has been around for decades now. This concept of borrowing benefits really is about if you're working with someone in a session or it could be that you are watching a video online of tapping. And if you're tapping, if there's anything similar in yourself that might relate to that client, you get a benefit as the therapist too, don't you?

Carol (04:40.92)
You get a benefit as a therapist, but even if your issue isn't the same, what you're doing is tapping on the acupuncture points and calming down the fight or flight response. Maybe your client brings up a topic that's uncomfortable for you. Maybe the topic is exactly the same as your issue. Maybe you've just put your stress on the table the way we do in groups. You know, take your issue, put it on the table, metaphorically, and tap, tap, tap, even if the person on stage isn't having the same issue.

So there are lots of ways that it gets in there. The point is anytime you're tapping on your points, you're calming yourself down, even if you're not focused on my phobia of flying or a fear of success or anything else. So it was pretty fascinating because I didn't understand it. All I knew was I was grateful and happy. And of course, when you start sleeping, everything else changes in your life.

Peta Stapleton (05:33.75)
And do you think there's any other given you've got the hypnosis background, you've got the psychotherapy background, and I you've worked in lots of different client population areas, do you think there's any other therapy techniques that have that kind of benefit, like what we're talking about, this borrowed benefit that you can get, whether you're in session or working in a group, do you think anything else works like that?

Carol (05:54.987)
not so directly and not so deeply. So when people learn how to meditate or meditate in groups, they calm down and they might sleep better, have more space to think about their issues, but that's not healing and releasing some of the big anxiety producing challenges that we all deal with. So I haven't come across it. Doesn't mean there isn't one, but I haven't. And I say to clients, as you know, if I find something better and faster and more complete than tapping, than EFT,

I'll let you know, but I haven't. And I've looked, you and I are in the same circles where we look, we take classes, we search, we read, we look at other techniques. And I haven't found anything that does the kind of work deeply that EFT does.

Peta Stapleton (06:42.336)
I'm with you and people probably don't realize, but I'm a closet, impatient person. So I'm the same. I'm like, you say something quicker. No, I haven't found it yet. So yeah, it's pretty fast. You mentioned healing. You mentioned healing from anxiety and things. How do you define the concept of healing? We are talking, of course, about kind of counseling psychology settings here. In all of the client work you've done.

Carol (06:46.582)
Thank

Peta Stapleton (07:08.67)
how do you see that? Like what's the definition of healing for someone?

Carol (07:11.598)
Hmm. That's so interesting as a question. People come to me and say, this issue is challenging my life and bothering me. So when we neutralize anxiety, fear, know, worry, it heals them in that it no longer interferes with the rest of their life. So people come in and they say their reactivity is off the charts. Can you help me? Yes, I can tap, tap, tap. And then they're able to handle their boss.

They're able to deal with their adolescence. They're able to handle stress. We don't want more stress, but they're able to handle it in a way that's more mature because their brain comes online. So healing is, to me, is feeling calmer overall, being able to be still and quiet. Then your brain can process. The problem with anxiety is that it actually interferes with our ability to metabolize emotional material to process what's really going on.

Traumas get re-triggered very easily. So there's a healing in that things that bothered us are still there. We can remember them, but they are no longer interfering with our nervous system. It's all about the nervous system. So you can actually heal your nervous system. You can heal old traumas in your nervous system and then heal relationships because you're different with your spouse, with your boss, with your colleagues, with your sister, you know, with...

everybody in your life. it's interesting. It's an interesting question about healing.

Peta Stapleton (08:45.558)
Yeah and I think you're right you know most people you know if we were to survey clients worldwide who come into therapy by choice you know what's the one thing people are trying to achieve in that space a lot of people will say I just want to feel happier because there's something that's obviously interfering with that now happiness may also equal I want to feel calmer or less anxious or more content or more fulfilled or

whatever it might be. So I think, yeah, there seems to be this commonality of what people are trying to achieve in that setting as well.

Carol (09:14.117)
Yes.

Carol (09:19.589)
People feel pretty tortured by anxiety. I know because I was born anxious and spent a lot of years really anxious and it's a miserable, you wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy. It's a miserable feeling to be anxious and not just be anxious but to be distracted by your anxiety, to have it interfere with your work or your relationships or not be able to concentrate and focus. It's really miserable, right? So when people feel like, my gosh, I'm more peaceful.

happier I'm able to handle what's coming my way, then they feel a level of healing.

Peta Stapleton (09:56.886)
And tell me how then, okay, if we're talking anxiety, but it could be trauma as well. You've done a lot of work in addictions as well as the pain, chronic pain sort of space and things like that. How is it that these things get, I guess, projected or transformed into a behavior? What is it that makes that happen for someone that they may not identify there's anxiety underlying? It just looks like...

cigarette smoking problem or it looks like an alcohol problem or a weight problem. Like what is happening?

Carol (10:31.971)
when they're using the substances, what's happening. The substances work. I say to people, you and I have done weight loss workshops together, eating, drinking, smoking, calling your ex-boyfriend, being on the internet, it all distracts and calms you down because you're dissociated. You're not connected to your pain when you're smoking. I loved smoking. I loved smoking. I only smoked for 10 years, but it was...

age 15 to 25 and it really worked. So people don't think there's something beneath it. They think, oh, alcoholic, we got to deal with the alcohol. Well, you do. You have to put the alcohol down. know, overweight, you need to put down the sugar, the cakes, the cookies. Yes, you do. But then when you do underneath it, all the feelings start to surface, which is why people, anybody can stop drinking for a week, stop smoking for a week, lose weight. It's when you get there, then they gain it back.

or want to use the substance again because they haven't gotten to the real issue. And I think EFT is incredible for that. think it really, no other technique has been able to do what EFT has for addictive craving, addictive behaviors and cravings. And again, this includes relationship cravings, relationship drama. I can't be without, they say about their ex boyfriend, girlfriend. So I think it's incredible because it calms down the urgency.

which is anxiety that says, I don't get my drug of choice, I'm gonna lose it. That's what people say. Like, you don't take away my cigarettes, don't take away my sugar. So it's really powerful, really powerful to get to what's really going on underneath the need to reach for the telephone, YouTube, what goes on underneath that. That's what we have to get to and tapping gets to it very quickly when you ask the right questions.

Peta Stapleton (12:27.692)
Yeah. And I know you talk about and you've written about in your most recent books, The Yes Code, which I've just finished reading myself as well. This concept of resistance, because I'm imagining if someone might be listening in or for themselves or thinking about a client that they're working with. And, OK, we've got these surface behaviors that we know now, know, anxiety is sort of working through because you're right, they work, they soothe the anxiety.

for a period of time at least. But if someone was listening in and kind of thinking, yep, I've got some of this going on, I don't really know the next step to take. But what is it about resistance that comes up for people, which might be a sign of something, it might be an opportunity, but what, tell us about resistance, because I know you write about it and you have unique ways of kind of talking about resistance.

Carol (13:21.721)
Well, what I love doing with asking people is, you know, people come to me and they say, I'm afraid of success because look at my bank account or look at my work life or look at my relationships. I just blew up another relationship and they don't know why. And all they want to do is tap on getting over that. And they skip an important piece, which are the questions. And I say, well, what's the upside of staying stuck? And they say, what are you talking about? There's no upside. I hate it. I came to you to fix my procrastination.

or fix my success or failure issues. Well, when you understand that there's an upside, then you can get to the real issue. So we're wired for safety. We're not wired for success. And everybody in our culture is trying to be more successful, more financially advanced, higher up in their field. And they miss that safety means we might not want to be visible. We might not want to be

the top of our field, we might not want to publish a book because it draws attention and that could feel dangerous. Then the flip side is what's the downside of reaching your goal? And people will say, well, I came to you to help me reach my goal. There is no downside. Well, of course there is or else you'd be there. So when you ask that, how does it serve you to stay in this position and not reach your goal? They'll say, my gosh, if I reach my goal, maybe my friends will change. Maybe someone will target me.

Maybe somebody will be jealous. Maybe there's a list, you know, 20, 30, 40 reasons that we all would rather stay comfortable. Our little zone, we know what's there. We don't have to change. Nobody will have expectations. So when you get to the answers to those questions, those are the tappable issues. Sometimes people want to tap on procrastination. It doesn't do any good. You need to understand why you'd be using a self-sabotage behavior such as procrastination.

to keep you safe, that's what you have to get to. So that's where the resistance shows up. And then, and many people will say, I don't get it. Why are you asking me those questions? And within a few minutes, a few seconds or minutes, they understand, I am just protecting myself by not being out there. Staying stuck serves a purpose. And once that is communicated, and I had to work on myself, that was a big deal for me. That's why I work in that part of this field.

Carol (15:50.021)
And once you get that, it's like, stop criticizing yourself. It doesn't do any good. Find out why you're protecting yourself and what you're protecting yourself from.

Peta Stapleton (16:00.322)
And it's a nice way to kind of come to it, isn't it? That it really is just part of the brain, the unconscious that might be protecting you based on, you know, habits or patterns or whatever might be going on, rather than this negative part that's trying to attack you and not allow you to achieve your goal in life or something like that. It really is a safety mechanism, isn't it?

Carol (16:22.822)
It's trying to solve a problem. And when you take the criticism out and say, oh, you must be trying to solve a problem, then the client can get to a space of, huh, you know, thank you, brain. Okay. Thank you, mind. I get it. And then they open up these channels of being able to say, I know what happened when last time I was successful, someone hurt me. I know this person will be jealous if I lose the weight. This person will be upset if I make more money.

and then they really can get to the bottom line. And then those tapping targets become very clear, right? Very specific and very clear. And that's what we go for.

Peta Stapleton (17:00.428)
Yeah and tell me, you mentioned we both keep learning and listening to things and reading things and I was doing this myself just in the last week and I was listening to a lot about family constellation therapy styles and I'm wondering with resistance or patterns of behaviour whether that's anxiety, self-soothing or whatever.

do you think there's a lot of honouring that goes on in families to continue patterns of behaviour? I know a lot of people might sort of say, that addiction runs in my family or everyone's overweight or, but where does it sort of, you know, really become a conversation about might we be just honouring through a family pattern point of view to stay

in the fold of the family and not be rejected by being different, like have you seen that show up in the clients that you've worked with?

Carol (17:58.149)
Yes, and I asked the question about loyalty. So there is, you know, inherited challenges with, they've discovered with weight, with addictive behavior, with anxiety, with depression, right? And that's one piece of it, right? In my family, it was all addiction, all alcoholism, and I didn't become an alcoholic, but I gained too much weight and smoked and was very, very anxious and...

You you have to get to the bottom of that. What was I trying to do? What was I trying not to feel? So I didn't inherit the alcohol, but I inherited the not talking about your feelings, right? So that's one part of it. The loyalty issue that you're bringing up is fascinating because people don't think of it. And if you say, who might you be being loyal to by having the same issue, you know, their eyes just go, whoa, they say, my gosh, how did you know?

I didn't know, I just know it's common to feel connected to a parent or grandparent through your behavior or through a pattern. And we also can use it as an excuse. So not only is there a real loyalty issue or an energetic and emotional issue, sometimes we just say, everybody in my family is overweight. And we use that as a way not to deal with the behavior and much more importantly, the emotions underneath that are driving the behavior.

Peta Stapleton (19:27.286)
Yeah, it's a really interesting question to ask and yeah, I can imagine anyone listening in might be kind of pondering now, who might I be loyal to even if I on the surface don't really want to be? Some of these things kind of really drive us at quite a deep level, don't they?

Carol (19:42.856)
And it comes up with the fear of success as well. So people will say, well, my father, my mother didn't make that much money. And if I catapult my salary or my income level beyond them, and this is whether they're still alive or not. They'll say, I'll feel guilty, disloyal. Who am I? Do I really fit into the family anymore? It's a big issue, but when people aren't asked about it,

They stay in their comfort zone. no, it's the economy. no, it's just the field I'm in or the area where I'm working. So it's really important to get to those questions and say, is it possible that you're staying connected emotionally and energetically by repeating a pattern, by being the one who does the same thing that dad, mom, grandmother, grandfather did?

Peta Stapleton (20:34.69)
Yeah, yeah. Which leads me to I want to talk about kind of this internal resistance and achieving our goals and things and one of your most recent bestsellers, The Yes Code has unpacked some of that. Can you tell us what is this finding your next yes? Like you've really talked about that and I absolutely strongly recommend people read it. But what do you mean by that?

Carol (21:00.327)
What we do is we get influenced by other people, what they want for us, what they think is popular, what they think will work for us, and we've lost our connection to our own gut feeling and our own yes. And we need to practice it. So sometimes people come in and say, oh yeah, I hear it, I know it, but I don't want to pay attention to it because it might upset somebody else. Other people say, what are you talking about? And if you don't have your own compass that says this is a yes for you,

no matter what other people are doing in your field, your family, right, your community. If you can't get to your yes, you're going to make decisions for the wrong reasons that'll end up pointing you in the wrong direction. So we really have to get to figuring out what does my yes feel like and am I afraid to follow it?

Peta Stapleton (21:53.718)
Anyone listening in that's curious about this, of course, the yes code as a book absolutely offers EFT tapping as the tool to be able to not only find it, but sometimes we really want something, but there's resistance in the way and tapping can obviously be part of clearing that to get to that yes, can't it?

Carol (22:14.925)
Yes, because we're not, to use a more modern word, we're not in alignment. So our heart says, yes, our mind says someone will be upset with us and our gut says, but wait a minute, I think I should go there. So we've got mixed messages and crossed wires. And as you've done all the research on the best way to uncross our wires is the tapping. It gets us in alignment. Now we can be in alignment with wanting to be successful.

and we can still be afraid of other people's reactions. But the first thing we need to do is understand why part of you says yes, part of you says no, and there's a battle. We need to unhook the battle internally, and then you can deal with other people's reactions to your success or whatever's going on in your life. And people, know, a lot of clients will come to me or they're in my series and they'll say, but I don't want anyone to be jealous. You can't stop that.

So we have to get over our reactions to their reactions. And so sometimes there are layers there, right? It's not just clear your blocks to success. What are the blocks? the blocks are, I'm worried about how people might view me if I'm quite visible. I'm worried that people will be envious because they don't have the success I have. Uh-oh, what do we do about that? And we just have to clear layer, lots of layers going on.

Peta Stapleton (23:39.104)
Yeah I truly hope listeners go off and absolutely dive deep into the yes code available everywhere links are below everyone but on the back of that book and this is again your prolific sharing and writing coming out you've most recently had come out another best-selling book which is all about gratitude good we have a copy of that one there yes thank you.

And I think this is just beautiful in combination with other sort of practices out there that use gratitude, self-compassion, certainly, you know, that aspect of thanking. And I know you've got some practices yourself that I often share with my audience too, just about the tapping that can be done around this. So tell us a little bit about, you've called it the superpower of gratitude. What do you mean by that?

Carol (24:17.18)
Yes.

Carol (24:29.192)
Well, I don't think anyone would argue that gratitude feels good and people should do it and there have been books out for decades about it, but I started doing the research and it's very, very serious what happens when you stick to a gratitude practice. There's real research about it. Dropping your cortisol levels by 23%, dropping your risk of heart disease and hypertension by 25%, improved the sleep studies are amazing, right?

Gratitude in a relationship. What happens? What happens when you're at work? All the physical ailments that have changed as a result. So I thought, okay, this isn't just, let's do a gratitude practice, which I hope everybody does. But I look at why I was blocked to doing it myself. Why would I say it's a nice thing to do and then I skip it for three weeks? Why would I believe in it? Think it's a great idea? Think it's a wonderful self-help tool? And then I don't do it.

So I go through my story again and what really blocked me. I was so focused on fixing my family. I didn't think gratitude was a good idea, right? Then you have low self-esteem. People with low self-esteem are resistant to doing things that make them feel better, right? Then there's the self-sabotage again where the thought of being more successful. If you read the research on gratitude, it's pretty hard not to do it every single day, right?

And then I started doing EFT tapping with gratitude. So gratitude tapping and thank you tapping after you've focused on the challenge that you've got and gone done at least two rounds, then to end with appreciation and gratitude. Cause when you do it without focusing on the issue, it tends not to land anywhere because you're still anxious or still focused on the challenge. So I do it after we've done a couple of rounds, but it's a big part of my practice and I love it. So.

I go through my story, why, other people's resistance, my resistance, and then really make a case for, this is serious, this is science. This is serious science about it. So I recommend it, then use the tapping for how to clear your blocks to wanting to feel better, to wanting to do better and be better. Yeah.

Peta Stapleton (26:43.554)
Yeah, amazing. And like we said, most people coming in from a client point of view to any kind of counseling therapy setting appear to want that. So, yeah, most of us just want to feel better, better than where we are at the moment or, you know, good in general, happy, however you describe it. Now, you've given our listeners two web links and they are below which are related to the Yes Thank You book. So even if someone

Carol (27:02.033)
Okay.

Peta Stapleton (27:12.898)
was not able to purchase the book. These two URLs give them access to materials, don't they, from the book.

Carol (27:19.962)
Yes, free. It's called a portal. So if you do buy the book, there's a QR code and you can go into the portal. It's free. The portal is free. But you don't have to buy the book. Go to the portal, put your name in and get all the free videos that correspond with the book's fear of saying no, guilt when you set boundaries, not taking care of yourself, all those issues, procrastination. So they can get those videos, very short, eight minute videos about how to do the tapping for these particular issues that are getting in your way.

Peta Stapleton (27:50.188)
And just a little bit of gratitude towards you, Carol, for providing that, even if someone wasn't to access the book, you've provided those links and they are below everyone. absolutely. Even if tapping is new for you, you can just tap along. You can watch Carol, copy her and tap along with the words and learn a little bit more about gratitude tapping, but thank you tapping as well. Carol, this has been fascinating. I always love, even though we've known each other for quite some time now.

Carol (28:16.048)
Thank

Peta Stapleton (28:17.193)
Every time we chat, always walk away and kind of feel inspired and feel like, yes, there's something else that I've just learnt that maybe, you know, I hadn't remembered or it was the first time I was hearing it again. So thank you so much for everything that you do in this world and your generosity in sharing all of these kind of resources.

Carol (28:37.576)
And thank you, Peter. It was a wonderful day when we first met and we've been friends ever since. And your research and your work in the field has changed the field. So we owe you in a big way. So thank you.

Peta Stapleton (28:49.186)
Thank you.

No, thank you. And that is a funny story, everyone. Carol and I were obviously connecting at a conference overseas. And you know how you have those moments in time where you see someone, you've never met them before and we went to dinner together. And I swear if the waiters walked past us 87 times to get our order, we had just started talking and didn't look up for a couple of hours. And it was like we knew each other from a long time ago. It's quite interesting. Yeah.

Carol (28:59.469)
Thank you.

Carol (29:14.92)
Yes.

Peta Stapleton (29:19.118)
Thanks so much everyone. Carol's bio is below with her web address if you do want to visit her work and of course the two links there for her books and those extra videos that go with yes thank you. I can't wait to see you again in person Carol and thank you for all that you do in the world.

Carol (29:37.244)
Thank you, Peter.

A bonus from Dr Carol's book - The Yes Code:  https://www.theyescode.com/thankyou/