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In this episode of the Fourth Wave in Therapy podcast, Dr. Peta Stapleton interviews Gavin Abeyratne, exploring the intersection of leadership, personal development, and innovative therapeutic practices. They discuss the emergence of the fourth wave in therapy, the impact of limiting beliefs on leadership, and the importance of understanding the six forces of change that affect personal and professional growth. Gavin shares insights on the role of psychedelic-assisted therapy, the concept of integral alchemy, and practical tools for self-discovery, emphasizing the relational nature of self and the importance of community in personal development. In this engaging conversation, Gavin Abeyratne and Dr. Peta Stapleton explore themes of personal growth, visualization, and emotional balance through guided meditation techniques. They discuss the importance of social influences, the process of visualizing future successes, and the dynamics of energy flow within the body. The dialogue emphasizes the significance of acknowledging both positive and negative feelings, embracing possibilities, and trusting the timing of life transitions. The session culminates in reflections on the experience and insights gained, along with resources for further exploration.

Takeaways

• Gavin's diverse background includes leadership coaching and energy clearing work.

•  The fourth wave in therapy focuses on clustering various modalities for effective personal development.

•  Limiting beliefs often hinder leadership effectiveness and personal growth.

•  Self-transcendent purpose is crucial for sustainable behavioral change.

•  The six forces of change include self-transcendence, shadow work, social context, cognitive, somatic, and story.

•  Psychedelic-assisted therapy is gaining traction in leadership development.

•  Community and relational dynamics are essential for integrating personal development practices.

•  The importance of moderation in self-help and therapeutic practices.

•  Understanding one's own story can lead to greater self-awareness and growth.

•  The intersection of Eastern and Western practices is vital for holistic development. Social influences shape our personal growth.

•  Visualization can help us celebrate future achievements.

•  Guided meditation fosters emotional awareness.

•  Balancing positive and negative feelings is essential.

•  Chakra dynamics influence our energy flow.

•  Trusting the timing of life transitions is crucial.

•  Embracing possibilities leads to authenticity.

•  Energy can be visualized as a solid beam.

•  Reflecting on experiences enhances self-discovery.

•  Collaboration can drive personal and professional growth.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Gavin Abeyratne

06:39 The Role of Limiting Beliefs in Leadership

10:16 Understanding the Six Forces of Change

17:19 The Intersection of Leadership and Personal Development

22:46 Psychedelic Assisted Therapy and Its Impact

27:56 Integral Alchemy: Synthesizing Personal Development

31:40 Practical Tools for Self-Discovery

36:39 Exploring Social Influences and Personal Growth

37:25 Visualizing Success: Celebrating Future Achievements

38:09 Guided Visualization: Creating Your Dream Home

39:27 Embodying Feelings: The Connection Between Visualization and Emotion

41:10 Navigating Tensions: Balancing Possibility and Limitations

43:04 Integrating Sensations: Acknowledging Both Positive and Negative Feelings

44:15 Embracing Possibility: Moving Towards Authenticity

46:01 Energy Flow: Understanding Chakra Dynamics

48:31 Connecting to the Ground: Root Chakra Stability

49:01 Crown Chakra: Expanding Consciousness and Awareness

51:01 Reflecting on the Experience: Insights and Takeaways

53:02 Finding Gavin: Resources and Future Collaborations

54:37 Closing Thoughts: The Journey Ahead

Keywords: 

EFT, leadership, personal development, limiting beliefs, fourth wave therapy, psychedelic therapy, self-transcendence, shadow work, cognitive somatic, integral alchemy, personal growth, visualization, guided meditation, chakra healing, emotional balance, future success, mindfulness, energy flow, self-discovery, authenticity

Note: this is unedited.

Dr Peta Stapleton (00:01.435)
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Fourth Wave in Therapy podcast. We have just been having a laugh offline before we hit record about who I am actually speaking to today. Now, I've been talking to Gavin Aberetney for about a month or so now just about some other things. I had a chat about EFT on one of his platforms and Gavin's just sent me his bio of who he is.

Cause I'm like, come on my podcast, let's have a chat. I'm just going to introduce Gavin to you so that everyone can be as speechless as me right now. So Gavin said his bio through and said to me, look, I've got a Buddhist dad and a Catholic mum. Now why that might be relevant is the conversation that we're to have today. But Gavin's background includes being a senior executive at Mindvalley. Now I'm sure all our listeners are familiar with Mindvalley. Pushed a lot out on EFT tapping and chakra healing through Mindvalley.

worked on the biggest research project tracking persistent non-symbolic experiences with Dr. Jeffrey Martin from the California Institute of Integral Studies, launched the book Stealing Fire. This is about where I just started to unravel with Jamie Weill and Steven Kotlar. Now I have that book on my shelf right here in my office. Gavin tells me he's got a signed copy behind him on his bookshelf.

Stealing Fire, if you haven't actually read that one everybody, you absolutely need to have a look, Performance Leadership and the Navy Seals. Studied himself, behavioral studies at Monash, marketing, lots of things there. Mind Medicine Australia, working with them, training hundreds of clinicians in psychedelic assisted therapies, another area, very fourth wave that we dive deep into here as well. And it just goes on. And that is our conversation today.

Gavin, welcome and thank you so much for joining me.

Gavin Abeyratne (01:53.806)
Yeah.

Gavin Abeyratne (01:57.916)
thank you, Peter. I love that introduction. It's nice to contextualize my own lived experience of yourself and I just kind of throw myself into stuff and it's nice to reflect. So appreciate that.

Dr Peta Stapleton (02:00.319)
Thank

Dr Peta Stapleton (02:06.367)
I know what you mean. And we're deciding of a new title. We're to come up with your other wave in life that you're heading down towards now as well, what we're going to call you. So we'll come up with something creative maybe out of today's conversation. Where really, and why I wanted to have this conversation, I guess, you know, in the context of the fourth wave in therapy, this particular podcast is very much about the work that you have done in, you know, leadership coaching,

Gavin Abeyratne (02:17.998)
That would be great.

Dr Peta Stapleton (02:34.655)
Some of that's been marketing and definitely crossed over and obviously you've been part of that with things like, know, stealing fire and the promotion and things like that. But the energy clearing work that has emerged in your field now and what you're applying your skills to, where do you want to start there?

Gavin Abeyratne (02:55.096)
Yeah. Look, it's a great question. well, I guess in the discussion around like the third wave that we had on when you came on my platform, know, all of those third wave, all of that third wave stuff essentially got clustered into NLP, I feel. And then NLP kind of made it into personal development. And then a lot of that stuff started being used in, you know, just general personal development.

And I feel as though as the fourth wave comes online, there's now going to be a new clustering. And this is essentially what I'm trying to do, the clustering of all of these modalities in terms of how they can be compressed and used in a subclinical way for, you know, not acute trauma treatment or crisis management, anything like that, but stuff that shows up in leadership development and people being more effective in the workplace, stuff like.

you know, feeling comfortable being seen, feeling comfortable being heard, speaking up in meetings, putting themselves out there. And for me, it really showed up as a marketing consultant when I'd often ask people to do things like, okay, cool, we're going to do an Instagram reel or put yourself out on a Facebook ad. And there would be this somatic, you know, attention and shrinking away from, from doing the thing. And no matter what was going on in the mind, obviously the cognitive, there was still a somatic resistance against it. And so this really just kind of frustrated me for a while to be honest with you. was like, oh, well, I guess it's just part of the

you know, the thing and it was essentially just trying to push through. And then during COVID, I started renting a little office near me. was living in Geelong down on the surf coast. And so we still had a bit more latitude. And one of the guys in there was a EMDR therapist. His name was Shannon Bowman, amazing guy, became a friend. And one day he was like, oh, you know, you've got this cool lifestyle. You're walking around doing your marketing stuff. Would you start working with me? So I started working with him. Of course I sit in his office and what do I see? But all of these negative beliefs and stuff just in his office. And I was like, oh.

I don't know this is what psychotherapy, I don't know this is what you're doing in psychotherapy goes yeah sure what are you triggered by? you want to, I can show you how it works. so I was like.

Dr Peta Stapleton (04:49.055)
Were they literally on the walls as written statements?

Gavin Abeyratne (04:53.354)
Yeah, statements on the wall for like some of his negative, some of the negative beliefs. Like here's his little list of things that you might find, you know, I'm not good enough. you know, the kind of stuff that we used to have a mind value. Like when we watched Marissa Pierce stuff, we used to get people to write on their mirror, I'm good enough, because that was one of the affirmations and, know, I'm enough, all these kinds of things. And so then he just did some EMDR, like sort of regression based stuff with me, know, very fourth wave.

And it wasn't around anything particularly acute. Just one of my friends or colleagues was triggering me at the time. And it was amazing to experience that. And I was like, wow, you just sort of neutralize that. And I was like, that's pretty, that's pretty interesting. So I started experimenting with a little bit more of that in my own work and marketing. And people just started having really good results because it would start decreasing the friction around them taking the steps that they needed to take. So that kind of kicked off, I suppose, the cognitive somatic piece for me in terms of that subclinical use. Does that make sense?

Is that making sense? Because this might be all over the place.

Dr Peta Stapleton (05:53.161)
No, no, totally. And it is probably sometimes that first experience, isn't it? When we, and it's the same with me with EFT, you know, I dismissed it for months with a colleague trying to tell me about it, but it wasn't until, I'm sorry, it happened. I'm kind of like, what, what has just happened here? That sort of thing that often, yeah, makes that decision point easier or you go, or you become open perhaps, you know. So if, if that, and maybe background and upbringing has kind of informed this, but if that is,

Gavin Abeyratne (06:21.358)
Hmm.

Dr Peta Stapleton (06:21.993)
what started a path for you here? What was it that you were noticing then, whether it was at Mindvalley or doing marketing for Stephen's book or whatever, where maybe you were noticing, hey, this seems pretty common out there in the world that people have these limiting beliefs and maybe we could help them.

Gavin Abeyratne (06:39.618)
Yeah, that's a great question. Well, mean, the first time gets a little nonlinear for me in these sorts of conversations. But one of the other experiences I had with this was when I was at Mindvalley and we launched a program for the first one I ever launched at Mindvalley was from Carol Tuttle, who is a chakra healer. And it was around

Dr Peta Stapleton (06:57.787)
I have Carol, she now does all the colour, the clothing and the colour.

Gavin Abeyratne (07:01.874)
yes. Yeah. And so that one was called SoulPrint Healing for Affluence. And we started using regression techniques even back then to start looking at people's first experiences around wealth. And that was one of the first times I sat on that. And I was like, that's really, really fascinating. So money is a huge area in which abundance and affluence and whatever you want to call it around people will have a lot of limiting beliefs, especially in the caring professions and the healing professions.

My mom's a mental health nurse, funnily enough. And so, you know, I know how that goes. So that's one area. The other one is often in terms of power and, you know, which kind of shows up in the boundaries and the assertiveness and some of those areas where it can be really challenging and people can have had some experiences where it maybe didn't feel safe to express their needs totally. And so that can also show up as potentially less of limiting belief and more of just a discomfort in the expression of a certain

way of being.

Dr Peta Stapleton (08:00.273)
Yeah. So did it lead you, you were launching these programs, you were noticing the effects on people. Did it kind of spark something in you and you used the word subclinical earlier about maybe we're not talking about full blood disorders here and things like that, but maybe these limits that we carry around with us that obviously are imprinted on us from a very young age who we're exposed to. Is that what sparked the interest, I guess, in helping people maybe in that leadership?

kind of space, take it to the next level.

Gavin Abeyratne (08:32.162)
Yeah, exactly that. so I've been immersed in this world for so long. I hadn't really applied it in my own practice. And so my business partner at the time, Colton and I, were like, well, what would you actually have to work on for people to get them to really succeed? And so we started just blending all of the various philosophies that we had at that point in time. And the first one was, of course, developmental in nature. And it was that people we found really

took action on things when they found what was called a self-transcendent purpose. And that was the purpose that went beyond their sense of individual self-interest. So I was like, okay, well, we need to start with self-transcendent purpose. And I'd always do that with marketing, bit of a Simon Sinek start with why, to really rally people around, what are you actually trying to do? You know, that was super effective. And then the second one that often come up was of course shadow work, where people would have a projection or a judgment around something, which it would just feel too inconsistent with their sense of self for them to be able to do it. So...

You you tell someone to do something with marketing and they'd be like, I don't want to be one of those influencer types or something like that. Or I could never be as good as this person. So you'd see projection and judgment in the shadow among other things. And then we're like, okay, well, you know, it also comes up socially because people, you know, we're very social creatures and they'd say things that were very tribal and identity based. Like, that's not how we do things is this. And, you know, we were taught not to do this. So it was quite limiting at the social level.

And then we got into state eventually and somatic much later on, I figured these things out. And then eventually story because ultimately these are the sort of six forces that are affecting what's going on in the psyche. And unless you kind of hit all of them at the same time, it's very hard to create sustainable behavioral change in my experience over, you know, to get people to really transform.

Dr Peta Stapleton (10:16.959)
So can we break this down just for a minute? And I'm trying to scribble down these six things. You know I'm off the top of your head. But maybe to apply it to just a common area in life. I don't know, you can pick one maybe. But just show us how this might be able to be transformed if we were just, you know, someone listening in kind of identifies today with maybe the topic that we're talking about. Maybe money is a good one, because often people, know, abundance, whether that's

does actually physically mean cash and wealth or it does mean something else abundant in love, abundant lifestyle, whatever it might be. How does this apply? what's the, is it, is that self transcendent, that first step, is that about why do I want to change this?

Gavin Abeyratne (11:03.096)
Yeah, well, exactly. so a lot of the time, the conditioning around money, we can do a good sentence completion testing here. Money is the root of all.

Dr Peta Stapleton (11:13.759)
What's the first thing? Now I grew up Catholic. So what's the first thing a Catholic thinks? I'm generalizing here everybody. Money is the root of all evil. So very much, and I understand that's not actually the line in the Bible, but very kind of ingrained in Sunday school kind of concepts. Yeah. Whereas the traditional line I believe is money is not the love of money.

Gavin Abeyratne (11:16.621)
Yep.

Dr Peta Stapleton (11:41.151)
is the root of a label, not money itself, the love of money and what that meant. So just what came to mind.

Gavin Abeyratne (11:47.98)
Yeah, well, exactly. And so this is true for almost everyone. Like I said, I was raised Catholic on that side as well. And there's a lot of enculturation. So that's why we look at the social element of it, because the enculturation around that upbringing, it's precognitive and it shows up deep in the unconscious. so that's a big one. So this first point, and then the self-transcendence is to essentially expand the sense of self so that your self-interest starts to include others as well. And this is how you can reconcile the tension between the self and other, where it's like, well,

Take yourself for example, I think you're a really, really good example of this, whether you do it consciously or not. You run one of the most conscious businesses around and your influences and the expansion of your business is directly correlating with the propagation of a more effective modality that's going to help people across the board. So it's like from my perspective, whether you've done this consciously or not, think you're a really good example of it. Just to case and point it.

Well, you know what I mean? Because it's like, well, sure. You know what I mean? Well, it's like, cool, the more your business scales, the more you're to train EFT therapists, the more they're going to get out there and all the people buy your courses.

Dr Peta Stapleton (12:47.197)
nothing.

Dr Peta Stapleton (12:54.391)
And I would absolutely own that anyone from the inside would know that that has been in correlation with my own personal growth. absolutely. So if anyone looks at it and makes you laugh at the overnight success stuff and it's like, no, no, this stuff's been going on for 20 years. So it has been in absolute sync with my own personal kind of transformation and dealing with my own stuff as it comes up.

Gavin Abeyratne (13:03.886)
100%. Yeah.

Gavin Abeyratne (13:23.916)
Yeah, that's why didn't feel bad sending you my bio 10 minutes before we met, because I'm like, I know you're all over this. I know you're all over this because I've been on your email list. I see what you're sending out you've clearly done the work. So reconciling that contradiction between self and other where my success is other success because I'm so embodied in my purpose that that's kind of where you have to start. And when you speak from that basis, it's really simple. And then the second one would be shadow. Sure. can apply it to you as well. I asked you this on when I asked you.

Tall Poppy Syndrome, right? Who am I to put myself out there? Who am I to be doing all this? Am I just gonna be one of those talking heads? No, you're doing that now in service of a greater purpose. So that's a potential shadow that someone might experience in terms of becoming a thought leader or becoming an author, right? All these sorts of stuff can come up. Golden shadow projection often happens at that point as well. And that can totally happen in the spiritual spaces where people... Golden shadow is when you project the positive traits, your positive traits onto someone else.

Dr Peta Stapleton (14:13.503)
Tell me more about that. What do you mean?

Gavin Abeyratne (14:19.593)
And then you get this sort of.

Dr Peta Stapleton (14:20.12)
we call that impression management in psychology. Comes up in personality tests.

Gavin Abeyratne (14:22.711)
Yes.

Gavin Abeyratne (14:27.726)
that's interesting. Yeah, yeah. So lots of different, different words for phenomena that just appears to be. Yeah, so that's a Jungian one. The golden shadow is a really interesting one to work with because, yeah, people will often project that onto onto other people. So we just say, okay, well, look at who you admire. And what about the people you admire? Can you also own in yourself? Not that you are that person or even where that person is, but you might have some of those traits and begin to embody them. So that's, that's the shadow on those.

Dr Peta Stapleton (14:32.51)
Wow, all right.

Gavin Abeyratne (14:57.368)
That's that much of the shadow for the Jungians out there, but it's enough to be be practical. Right. And then the social context, exactly as you said, just like looking into your enculturation, what your family's beliefs around money, what does your cultural beliefs around money? And you can appreciate that a lot of these probably were true, like even 50 to 100 years ago. You know, like if you had an economy where the only way you could get wealthy was was hoarding material things and coveting things that other people couldn't have in that kind of economy. Yeah, sure. Like the love of money would probably be

a win-lose dynamic. But in this day and age, when you can sell a digital information product or something like this, it's like your creation of wealth doesn't necessarily need to diminish anyone else's crash experience of wealth. we kind of have reconciled that contradiction there, which is not all the time, but enough of the time. It's like buying Peter's EFT course or one of mine or something. It's not going to decrease someone else's wealth. It's not taking. So that's a good one to go through.

And then the cognitive, the somatic and the state piece is very interesting. This is really, really interesting because, um, and this is really where the rubber I feel met the road for me when I started to go into this place, which is why I thought the fourth wave stuff was so interesting. It's that there is a somatic, uh, almost like a nourishment threshold or an upper limit after which someone feels that it's too much. They can't have this much.

love, they can't have this much money, they can't have this much success. And that sort of puts a natural internal limit on what they can receive. And that's a really, really big one to work into.

Dr Peta Stapleton (16:36.199)
And if that felt somatically, is that what you mean?

Gavin Abeyratne (16:39.884)
Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. It's felt somatically. it's kind of the, it's not so much a fear of failure, it's actually in some cases a fear of success.

Dr Peta Stapleton (16:50.697)
Wow, okay. So all of these pieces started to come together for you out of all the roles that you've played out there and jobs you've done and things like that. And you've developed then a perspective, I guess, that started to make sense and I'm guessing started to gain traction with people that you might've been working with as far as outcomes and things like that. I mean, where is, now you're in this leadership kind of area with your work.

Do you think there's an appetite? Are people looking at these, you know, maybe they're in these high level roles, maybe they aspire to be, but are leaders out there in the world, in your world, are they looking for this transformation work? Are they open to it?

Gavin Abeyratne (17:38.254)
Yeah, I mean, absolutely. So I'll give you an example of this sort of high performance mindset, right? You know that like, I want to be top 1 % and whatever it is I do. And it's a really good example. And it was a strange place I met him. My friend Shannon, actually, the psychotherapist who I mentioned from too long, I was at his Bucks night and nothing shady. just at the, it was like a restaurant beforehand. And I was sitting next to this guy and he's this really humble guy. was a police officer who was applying for a

position, he's an elite police officer applying for a very, very elite position within the force. And he was talking about, you know, his skills, and he was really quite humble. And I was just like, guys, you could you could do it some more. You know, you should own your achievements a bit more, you know, this whole tall poppy thing. I was like, man, you're awesome. Shannon's told me about you. I know you could you should own it. Okay, cool. And I said to him, what's that? Be more awesome. Yes, this vision's influencing me. Everything's awesome. And so I said to him, you know,

Dr Peta Stapleton (18:25.351)
more

Be more awesome.

Gavin Abeyratne (18:35.702)
Are you interested in trying something a little bit out there? And he goes to me, mate, whatever gets me in the top 1%. And I think that's probably the name of the game. Right. And I saw that with, which, you know, met one of those stealing fire Navy seals at the book launch. You he was there and, he said something really fascinating, you know, and he was just like, the, the hardest thing to do is not pull the trigger. And it was basically around decreasing reactivity and all of the Huberman lab stuff is all around.

Dr Peta Stapleton (18:58.868)
Yes.

Gavin Abeyratne (19:04.152)
I mean, it's a lot of Eastern stuff, essentially being language Dine in a Western way, know, non-sleep, deep rest, yoga, Nidra, breath work, Pranayama. It's sort of the zip-divine East meets West situation going on here, which I think is fantastic. You know, it's good to have these worlds converge. So people are absolutely open to it. And I think you're absolutely on the money that the fourth wave is now going to make its way into leadership development with all sorts of stuff, cold plunge therapy for high performance, you know, not just even at the, the, at the consciousness level, but also within

all these bodily practices and people totally have an appetite for it.

Dr Peta Stapleton (19:37.917)
And I think you see that, don't you, just at a local community level with what's being embraced as wellness activities. You mentioned cold plunge, things like that, yoga being embraced, but then trauma-informed yoga, as well as meditation practices. Joe DeSpenza is a friend of mine, and him and I have talked at length about that first 10 years of him out there trying to share, remembers pulling the car over, driving to a retreat, just sitting in the car crying, going, people don't get it.

Gavin Abeyratne (19:49.453)
Yes.

Gavin Abeyratne (19:53.838)
Absolutely.

Dr Peta Stapleton (20:07.135)
And no one would look at what he does now in meditation as far as, know, thousands of people that turn up to these events to get this experience. And the group collective, they measure the energetic field in that room of everyone meditating at the same time, because you can actually do that. You know, now everyone's like, I meditate. Yes, I do my breathing practices and I do my cold plunges and I do my sauna and all those kinds of things. And now it's this embracing that does appear to be happening at a collective.

kind of level, doesn't it? And I agree with you, the meeting, and I hope we don't lose too much in the East meets West kind of paradigm because it's been around and worked for thousands of years. Let's lose the translation there. And I've had a student pull apart mindfulness in a thesis dissertation.

because of what was lost and going on to do some kind of good work, trying to get people back to what was the essence and the roots of why mindfulness worked, not necessarily the commercialized version of it, that kind of thing. Yeah, so fascinating. It's amazing. And I'm with you. The fourth wave, I'm like, I think we've been here kind of getting this wave ready for the last decade at least. And we're now seeing

Gavin Abeyratne (21:07.278)
Totally.

Gavin Abeyratne (21:15.734)
I totally agree.

Dr Peta Stapleton (21:29.885)
people embracing despite perhaps ticks of approval from certain bodies and things like that around the world. That appears not to be needed as much anymore for people to embrace these things, even at an organisational level. Like we are getting requests and openness and embracing of even EFT, despite perhaps that it's not on some list somewhere that says it's OK because of the research and all those kind of things.

Tell me in the leadership management kind of area, the 1%, you know, the Steven Kotler's books, you know, I've done work with Andrew Newberg in meditation, conscientiousness, conscious states, things like that as well. In your bio, I mentioned psychedelic assisted therapy. And of course we've got students studying that as well. We expose them. what I mean by that is knowledge only, not actual substance in our lectures.

Like where does that play a role? Is that something that, you know, we have here in Australia had psychedelic assisted therapy approved psilocybin in particular for, you know, refractory PTSD and things like that in the right professions. Where is that playing a role?

Gavin Abeyratne (22:46.178)
Yeah, great question. Great question. And I throw all those S's at you without even letting you know before. you did an amazing job of taking it through. But just to close that loop, the last one is actually story. And story is the interface essentially between the inner world and the outer world when you do it at the inner level. And from a marketing perspective, story is really how we're going to these gaps between East and West, between clinical and non-clinical and all these things. So that's kind of where that ends and the self-authoring as well.

Ultimately, I find in the marketing world and in the business world, it's all a story. People are just experiencing some level of story. So I'll close that loop now. thanks for that. yeah, totally. In terms of psychedelic assisted therapy, how has that affected this whole emergence of the fourth wave? The thing we found

Dr Peta Stapleton (23:24.511)
Thank

Gavin Abeyratne (23:37.934)
in that world when I got brought into it. And to be honest with you, I had no experience with psychedelics at all before stealing fire. I had just launched Visions book as a New York Times bestseller with Colton. So they're like, hey, launch this one. You know what I mean? I was like, whatever. I read the book and was like, seemed like a fun group.

Dr Peta Stapleton (23:48.255)
Can we just say the title of the book in case anyone's madly scribbling notes here?

Gavin Abeyratne (23:55.446)
Yeah, vision from my code of the extraordinary mind. I was there at that time and then launched that one.

Dr Peta Stapleton (23:58.431)
COVID extraordinary man and I have that one at home yep brilliant great.

Gavin Abeyratne (24:02.914)
Yeah, great book. Great book as well. Anyway, so basically what we found is that people were already experimenting with altering state in various ways. Right. And that was basically the thesis of stealing fire, which was really fascinating. People were doing it either through yoga, potentially even tantra, downhill skiing. All of these things were neurochemically very similar and people were essentially already trying to alter state. And what was happening was that when people

found these altered states, they were using them as part of their recovery process to show up as better leaders and partners and whatever it was. Because in many ways, I think as a parent, you're naturally a leader of your little family anyway. So I use that term a little more broadly, potentially the most. And so that was causing a lot of people to be interested in this stuff. And I think if people are interested in something, there's really a scope for it to be used properly. And I think probably the most important chapter in stealing fire was the perils of ecstasis.

which was like what it was like to go too far into these states. And so that was something I thought was really, really interesting in Jeffrey's work around persistent non-symbolic experience kind of related very much to this idea around states of consciousness and altering states being something that was really powerful, but not to be taken too lightly and not to be sort of just flippant about.

Dr Peta Stapleton (25:18.887)
Absolutely. And look, we talk even in our teaching levels, you know, in university programs about the dark side of even practices such as mindfulness. It's contra-indicated for certain kind of symptomology. We even talk about the dark side of self-help. So I've had clients myself over the years where for whatever reason, they didn't have to kind of, you know, go to work every day. So every day was filled with some sort of self-help activity.

But that in amongst itself sometimes ended up in sort of a dark place where there was no interaction with other people, society. There was no feedback system, I guess, about whether or not transformation was happening because that was so every single day was some sort of fairly solitary transformation self-help activity. And I'm, we're all for self-help and, you know, doing all the activities, but not seven days a week, 24 hours a day.

And I think that's a really good point to make, you know, from Stephen's book, but also just out there generally that there's a dark side to it. I remember my mother saying a long, time ago, you know, even if you eat too much watermelon, it'll make you sick. you know, it's that same kind of analogy, isn't it, that everything in moderation, including things that are good for us.

Gavin Abeyratne (26:22.114)
Finally.

Mm.

Gavin Abeyratne (26:30.37)
Yep.

Gavin Abeyratne (26:38.434)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're absolutely spot on. especially when you're altering state, it's almost always best done in, in group, because one of the things around the nature of self is self is a relational concept, right? But case in point, I could have introduced myself as, you know, gave the, you know, plumber from down the road and now all of sudden I'm gave the plumber, right? It's like, these are all stories, right? In terms of how we, how we tell, you know, talk about ourselves and what have you. And so when you start altering your sense of self in isolation,

it's very challenging to integrate back into society. And so you typically want to sort of look at the society that you're trying to integrate with, the culture you're trying to integrate with, and sort of always bridging that inner world and that outer world and sort of having that communication between the two. Otherwise it can be pretty challenging, which is why that social component is quite important.

Dr Peta Stapleton (27:27.731)
Yeah, absolutely. And we're not recommending anyone listening in that you rush or attempt to try any of these things. Certainly wherever you are in the world, they may or may not be legal, kind of, you know. And if indeed they are, then we absolutely recommend, you know, accessing services that can support these kind of practices and things like that as well. So how does it all come together for you then in terms of

Gavin Abeyratne (27:31.369)
you

Dr Peta Stapleton (27:56.165)
your journey from here. You talked to me about an alchemy kind of you know phrase of this all coming together and the work that maybe is drawing you forward now.

Gavin Abeyratne (28:10.616)
Yeah, that's a great question, Peter. And I feel as though once something's out in the open, it needs to be done properly. so integral alchemy is what I've called it thus far. There's been a few name changes over the years, but integral alchemy is where we're at. And alchemist might be the identity that suits me best. We'll see. But it's an attempt to synthesize and synergize the various different types of

Dr Peta Stapleton (28:31.519)
Is

Gavin Abeyratne (28:42.278)
Yeah, guess, opposed to psychology or personal development tools into a relatively simple to understand framework so that people can be aware of how everything impacts on everything else and really be a beneficiary of these things. And this is true for practitioners as well who might use it for case conceptualization and sort of mapping. Okay, well, this is an interesting way to map. Well, okay, well, what's this person's purpose? Where are they having some shadows? How are they enculturated? All these kinds of things. So it's quite useful from that respect.

And then also just for the pros humor, which you see, you've seen a huge explosion of this since COVID when of course all mental health went online and people, clinicians who would never put anything online, we're now starting to put stuff online. And I think that's when really people started doing a lot of self diagnosis into early childhood trauma and all these kinds of things, right? Personally, that's when I feel it really, really exploded. And so if the things are out there in this pros humor world, I think it's nice to at least synergize these maps and models and bring together some of the best and brightest minds, yourself evidently being one of them, which is why I'm, you know,

you're kind of, this is why we had this interview with you last month first, to start like, okay, well, if these things are out here and people are looking at them, well, how do we understand these as maps and models for understanding the human experience? And part of that, think, is that, you know, whatever profession you're in, Peter Drucker, the management consultant said this a few decades ago, the big challenge of the 21st century is going to be the management of self and really the management of self in relation to others, i.e. interpersonal development.

I think personal development should probably be called interpersonal development because most of the issues are really, really relational. Hence you get into leadership and everyone kind of needs to become an expert in their own human operating system. Right? It's like, even if you're, and you tend to see this in leadership, people will be very technically skilled. And then sort of in that mid phase of their career, they realize the next step for them has nothing to do with how much better they get with their technical skills. It's their communication styles, their ability to show up and lead and.

presence and emotional regulation, all these kinds of things. that's where I feel that there's some really fantastic and wonderful things from psychology, whether it's tapping tools, clinical psych, depth psychology, a little bit of shadow work. Like I'm not saying that people start going out there and calling themselves things, but just being aware of what's going on within their own psyche so they can relate better and interact better and live richer, more fulfilling lives.

Dr Peta Stapleton (30:57.509)
Absolutely. And if anyone was listening in and we've obviously got all your details below of how people can get in contact and maybe even access what you're talking about. If someone was listening in and kind of went, you know what, this makes total sense to me and I want to go and take some action fairly immediately if I can. In all your years of what you've been exposed to, is there any

maybe activity or tool that you suggest might be something to get someone started on this pathway of perhaps, you know, maybe going into a little bit of that story or trying to understand a little bit more about self, something that they might be able to take away and do.

Gavin Abeyratne (31:40.696)
Yeah, no, great question. Well,

Yeah, this is pretty funny. Do want me to do it for you now?

Dr Peta Stapleton (31:48.799)
Absolutely, yes. I'll be the guinea pig.

Gavin Abeyratne (31:51.022)
Okay, cool. You want to be the guinea pig? Okay, sure. All right. Well, let's do it. There's a few ways we can do it. There's two. One is, what's your favorite movie?

Dr Peta Stapleton (32:01.009)
Ooh, probably a Marvel movie. So I'll give you genre. There's my sense of humor, everybody. We're a bit of a Marvel family. Which one? Look, I quite like Iron Man. Ooh, what does that say?

Gavin Abeyratne (32:15.884)
Of you do, of course you do, of course you do. Iron Man, I love it.

Dr Peta Stapleton (32:19.679)
And I love the music. I just think they nail the music and the humor. Yeah. Okay, good.

Gavin Abeyratne (32:26.208)
Yeah, all right, you're gonna love this one. So we'll do this. This is the shadow, partially shadow, but the movie that you like and the protagonist in that movie that you relate to the most is how you see yourself in the world. Yeah, and so.

Dr Peta Stapleton (32:40.755)
Really? My husband is gonna laugh when he hears this.

Gavin Abeyratne (32:45.068)
Well, so Iron Man is a lone hero who basically, know, to somewhat lone, eventually got a team behind him. But really Iron Man is a highly individualistic in a really positive way. And you're going to love this. The first Iron Man movie, what actually happens is he goes into a cave, he gets a new heart, and then three days later he comes out of the cave, which is actually the Christ resurrection story.

Dr Peta Stapleton (33:09.777)
It is, yeah, it absolutely is and echoes of, you know, Sunday school coming back in. Yeah, it is, yes.

Gavin Abeyratne (33:14.7)
Yeah. And isn't that fascinating? And so that's called meme jacking, that they've essentially taken this collective unconscious idea of someone who's willing to set. And of course, how does the, I'm not going to spoil it for anyone. How does it end? It ends with him sacrificing himself for the collective.

Dr Peta Stapleton (33:30.826)
my goodness, I'm a little bit speechless, Kevin. Yep, you've just nailed me. Everyone knows my story. Here we go.

Gavin Abeyratne (33:38.752)
Yeah, well, so that's, that well, that's Christ consciousness, which is and the beauty of the beauty of Christianity, there's a lot of beautiful things in Christianity, Christ consciousness is and people can hit that is like, that that willingness to as you talked about Joe sacrificed himself for the cause be 10 years, you know, sitting there in a car crying, because of that for you to put, you know, your career and all of this stuff on the line willing to put something out there. And that's what's so inspiring about you. I think that is a

That's why a lot of people like, you're my hero. You're one of my heroes for sure. know, I totally like Peter's awesome. For the exact reason that we just discussed. And so that's now obviously coming through in that story. So it's a really good way to just immediately look at how someone shows up in the world. And yeah, does that make sense?

Dr Peta Stapleton (34:20.817)
It does. So if someone was listening, kind of thinking what's their favorite movie, is it about identifying with the person in the movie that they most obviously have some connection with? And it could be, it could be the main character, but it could be somebody, it could be a secondary character in the movie. And is it about pondering or thinking, what do I see in myself in that movie?

Gavin Abeyratne (34:44.814)
Yeah, so that's a kind of a good golden shadow one. So it's like, what positive characteristics does this person have that I also have? Is a great way to ask that question. And so yeah, you've gone out there, you've put your money where your mouth is, you've essentially personally done this yourself, you know what I mean? You haven't waited for anyone else to get their hands dirty. You've gone into the lab, you've fixed it up, and now, God willing, you're not going to sacrifice yourself for the cause, but there's probably been a theme of a lot of sacrifice over the years. I know you've got incredible work ethic, extraordinary work ethic.

Dr Peta Stapleton (35:11.974)
100%. Yeah, 100%. We'll look back sometimes and you do have those moments even in the EFT world where you're like, I often have said to myself, I could have picked a easier area. literally. Wow. Yeah. Talk about the road less traveled. know, we're talking 20, 22 years ago was when EFT came into my world. This is not been an overnight thing. I'm like, geez, it would have made my life easy if I just went the old CBT route.

Gavin Abeyratne (35:14.583)
Yeah.

Dr Peta Stapleton (35:40.255)
you know, there was always this, yeah, inner, I guess, something in me, just looking for something that's better or just looking for something that would offer more ease. Yes, that's probably what it is. I do say I'm impatient at heart. So anything that's a little bit faster or quicker, but still gets me the same outcomes. I'm like, done, all good. And I blame my parents. So I can remember coming home. I must have only been 10 or 11, 12 years old.

And my mother was studying by distance education. So she would have, you know, all the booklets on the table of whatever assignments she was doing. And I remember clearly learning that she was studying plant medicine and it was only not through practice, but it was for her own personal interest. And my dad, even though, you know, dad's had a life of being a sign writer and a painter, house painter, my father regularly goes off.

Gavin Abeyratne (36:26.744)
Wow.

Gavin Abeyratne (36:33.36)
fantastic.

Dr Peta Stapleton (36:36.773)
this day to his weekly acupuncturist. He takes his Chinese herbs and boils them on the stove and drinks them. So I have two parents that have been so that yeah there was was no hope for me going mainstream here at all.

Gavin Abeyratne (36:39.79)
you

Gavin Abeyratne (36:52.738)
Yeah. Well, I love that. this is, isn't it nice, right? To just have that six S's where you make, yeah, let's look at social cause social is enculturation. It's early childhood and not in some sort of like negative way. It's just, well, how am I, how am I being influenced? I'm a, I'm a product of my, to some extent, I'm an emergent myself is an emergent function of all of these things. Like, how do I look at it? And that's a really nice, nice framing. okay. Well then the other one, if you wanted to actually experience some of this good old fashioned cognizant, we can do that too. all right.

Dr Peta Stapleton (37:21.192)
Absolutely.

Gavin Abeyratne (37:25.002)
So cool, so what is an area of life that you would like to succeed in? I better still let me ask it this way. 12 months from today, what are we celebrating, Peter?

Dr Peta Stapleton (37:35.827)
Ooh, what are we celebrating? Our brand new home that we've embraced. yeah, so we're in the family process of letting go of the home that we're in now, but we haven't yet. And this is really interesting because people in my life do know we haven't yet found the home that will replace it. And we are actively looking and have been looking for about a year and it has not emerged yet.

Gavin Abeyratne (37:40.046)
Hmm

Gavin Abeyratne (37:57.87)
Bye.

Gavin Abeyratne (38:04.098)
Okay, so would you say this is like just something that's present for you and alive for you?

Dr Peta Stapleton (38:08.19)
Yes.

Gavin Abeyratne (38:09.166)
Okay, beautiful. All right, so let's do this then. So can I just have permission just to take control of this session a little bit? Yeah. All right, so if you wouldn't mind just sitting back on your chair, closing your eyes, taking a nice deep breath.

Dr Peta Stapleton (38:16.221)
Yes, of course.

Gavin Abeyratne (38:32.184)
Good, and another one.

Gavin Abeyratne (38:40.32)
or third one if you wouldn't mind just making a nice audible.

Gavin Abeyratne (38:48.76)
Good, one more time just with an audible exhale.

Gavin Abeyratne (38:56.024)
Good. Just noticing your feet flat on the floor.

Gavin Abeyratne (39:02.732)
noticing the weight, gravity in your feet and your legs.

Gavin Abeyratne (39:13.838)
just noticing yourself planted in your chair, the gravity holding you down in your sit bones.

Gavin Abeyratne (39:27.054)
Yeah, so how are you feeling in this moment?

Dr Peta Stapleton (39:30.237)
get bit heavier probably because I'm focusing on the gravity.

Gavin Abeyratne (39:31.81)
Yeah, good.

Yeah, good. All right, is there any tension in your body?

Dr Peta Stapleton (39:40.626)
Not really.

Gavin Abeyratne (39:41.774)
Okay, cool. All right, so what I'd like you to do is now just visualize you're in this beautiful house, the house you've been dreaming of. It's exactly what you're looking for. Kids are running around happy, husband's happy.

Gavin Abeyratne (40:01.144)
Tell me more about what it is you see when you visualize this perfect home.

Dr Peta Stapleton (40:05.919)
Spacious, very light, fairly enough double story, which is not necessarily something that we were thinking of, but two story. Yeah, it just seems I'm standing at the front, quite like lighting color.

Yeah just spacious that's part of what we're looking for. Yeah has a lovely energy.

Gavin Abeyratne (40:38.222)
Okay. And so now how do you feel in your body when you think about that, when you visualize that scenario?

Dr Peta Stapleton (40:46.911)
Scented.

Gavin Abeyratne (40:48.6)
Yeah.

Dr Peta Stapleton (40:50.559)
Yeah, it just feels like an authentic feeling, like a given.

Gavin Abeyratne (40:56.376)
Hmm, and where you feel that authentic feeling.

Dr Peta Stapleton (40:59.295)
heart chakra solar plexus.

Gavin Abeyratne (41:03.64)
Beautiful. And what does that sensation feel like?

Dr Peta Stapleton (41:10.642)
WOMB

Dr Peta Stapleton (41:14.888)
it just feels right.

Gavin Abeyratne (41:19.15)
Cool. And are there any other negative sensations in your body as well?

Dr Peta Stapleton (41:24.605)
The only thing that's coming up, we have to have a curve ball. Where I'm standing and where I visualize it, see it, is on the same block of land where we currently are. But my brain can't figure out how to do that.

Gavin Abeyratne (41:30.093)
Hmm.

Gavin Abeyratne (41:41.326)
Mmm.

Dr Peta Stapleton (41:50.641)
as in obviously to knock down rebuild. It hasn't been part of the conversation, but that's where it looks like. I'm not fixed that it has to be there, but that's what it looks like in my mind. So part of my brain's going, that's not possible.

Gavin Abeyratne (42:08.715)
And so that negative sensation where you're feeling that, sense of not being possible.

Dr Peta Stapleton (42:11.583)
More in my forehead, more in my head.

Gavin Abeyratne (42:17.998)
Okay, good. And how does that sensation feel?

Dr Peta Stapleton (42:21.247)
like just a tightness.

Gavin Abeyratne (42:26.085)
Mm-hmm. OK. So I just want you to breathe into that tightness for a minute.

Gavin Abeyratne (42:34.91)
And I also want you to notice and remember the setness and the rightness and the authentic feeling as well.

Gavin Abeyratne (42:47.18)
in your heart and your solar plexus. And just notice that both of those feelings are actually present at the same time.

Gavin Abeyratne (42:59.31)
Cool. So now...

Yeah, and how are you feeling generally right now?

Dr Peta Stapleton (43:09.981)
Yeah, I feel okay. Like, it's okay that they can both be present.

Gavin Abeyratne (43:14.734)
Mm-hmm, good. OK, so I just want you to bring your awareness now back up to that tightness in the fard.

Gavin Abeyratne (43:25.23)
And I just want you to feel that tightness now moving down your face.

Gavin Abeyratne (43:31.7)
Anti-Athreat Chakra.

Gavin Abeyratne (43:39.278)
and how's it feel in your third chakra?

Dr Peta Stapleton (43:44.127)
Probably just a slight tightness, like moving it down.

Dr Peta Stapleton (43:55.347)
Not overly though.

Gavin Abeyratne (43:57.774)
OK. And if that Titanus could say something, what would it want to say?

Dr Peta Stapleton (44:03.11)
anything is possible.

Gavin Abeyratne (44:04.662)
Mm-mm. Great. Beautiful. All right, so just breathe into that.

Dr Peta Stapleton (44:06.601)
will be opened with possibility.

Gavin Abeyratne (44:15.766)
Now I'll just bring it a little bit further down if that feels okay, just to drop it into your heart. Letting that tightness move down from your throat into your heart chakra.

Gavin Abeyratne (44:30.574)
How's it feel there?

Dr Peta Stapleton (44:35.069)
Yeah, it feels okay.

Gavin Abeyratne (44:39.943)
Tell me more about that, okay?

Dr Peta Stapleton (44:41.745)
Yeah, it's not very good descriptor, is it?

or it doesn't feel like a tightness.

it's still that same kind of message or feeling of anything is possible.

Dr Peta Stapleton (45:02.449)
It's not really a feeling.

Gavin Abeyratne (45:07.436)
What sensation is it?

Dr Peta Stapleton (45:11.793)
is probably more matching the...

Dr Peta Stapleton (45:17.129)
kind of knowingness, authentic part that I talked about before. It's probably, it's more that. Yeah.

Gavin Abeyratne (45:27.936)
that energy now want to move up or down. Good. All right, so let's now move it down to the solar plexus.

Dr Peta Stapleton (45:30.91)
down.

Gavin Abeyratne (45:44.686)
How's it feel there?

Dr Peta Stapleton (45:47.327)
Yeah, it feels all right. It just feels like it's kind of concentrated at that chakra kind of point.

Gavin Abeyratne (45:57.26)
Yeah, tell me about the energy. Is it moving? What's going on with it?

Dr Peta Stapleton (46:00.575)
It's like it's, no it feels quite clear like if I imagine it beaming out from that it would just be like a solid beam.

Dr Peta Stapleton (46:16.995)
like concentrated in a single spotlight. it's a bit like Iron Man. yeah that's actually I wasn't thinking that but that's what it looks like. Wow.

Gavin Abeyratne (46:20.803)
Cool.

Yeah!

Gavin Abeyratne (46:30.062)
Cool. Awesome. Yeah, nice one. Nice one. Power center. That makes sense. Makes sense. All right. And then if you move it a little bit lower.

Dr Peta Stapleton (46:35.583)
Hello.

Dr Peta Stapleton (46:49.023)
Yeah, it's probably a little bit.

Gavin Abeyratne (46:49.208)
going on there.

Dr Peta Stapleton (46:54.003)
bit more swirly, bit more movement if I move it little bit.

Gavin Abeyratne (46:56.194)
Mmm.

How about the sensation? does it feel like?

Dr Peta Stapleton (47:06.086)
Yeah just flowing, just not so concentrated, just more flowing movement. positive, yeah positive feeling. If I could say something, just to stay open.

Gavin Abeyratne (47:13.07)
And if it could say something. Sorry, was that,

Gavin Abeyratne (47:19.342)
Cool.

Dr Peta Stapleton (47:29.375)
It's kind of the message of like something's about to happen. And I have been trying to just trust the timing.

Gavin Abeyratne (47:34.285)
Mm.

Dr Peta Stapleton (47:41.919)
Hmm.

Gavin Abeyratne (47:43.822)
Trust the timing. That's quite a nice one, isn't it? All right, so we'll drop one more down to root chakra.

Dr Peta Stapleton (47:45.191)
Mm. Yeah.

Dr Peta Stapleton (47:57.405)
Yeah, that just feels stable, more solid.

Dr Peta Stapleton (48:09.287)
Yeah, not moving as much energetically, just stable, like the bass.

Gavin Abeyratne (48:19.662)
Cool. And just feel that energy just moving through your legs, down into the ground, through the soles of your feet.

Gavin Abeyratne (48:31.214)
We haven't taken up to the third eye of the crown yet, so we'll finish the job. But how's that feeling now? Is that flowing for you? Yeah. All right. So now let's just draw it back up your feet, up your legs, up each of those chakras and up now to your back to your third eye.

Dr Peta Stapleton (48:37.279)
Mm hmm. Yes.

Gavin Abeyratne (48:49.998)
I'm noticing that it's connected to the ground, it's flowing through you from the earth up to your third eye. How's that feeling now in the head?

Dr Peta Stapleton (48:57.445)
Mm-hmm, quite stable.

Gavin Abeyratne (49:01.474)
Yeah, what else?

Dr Peta Stapleton (49:04.543)
Yeah, I can sort of imagine the, again, like a beam of light just out from the third eye, middle of the forehead, as well as one straight out the crown.

Gavin Abeyratne (49:16.386)
Yeah, cool. right, so let's go right up to the crown now.

Gavin Abeyratne (49:23.98)
That's better. How's that feeling?

Dr Peta Stapleton (49:24.009)
Yep. Yeah. Yeah, good. Yeah, like drawing upwards. Yeah, pulling up.

Gavin Abeyratne (49:29.88)
Yeah.

Gavin Abeyratne (49:36.597)
So just breathe into that.

Dr Peta Stapleton (50:48.065)
My face is quite warm.

Gavin Abeyratne (51:01.326)
free to share anything if you want to, if not, also fine.

Dr Peta Stapleton (51:05.521)
Yeah, it's just a drawing up feeling but then it was almost like it came down on the outside of my face. So not any internal feeling more of an outside kind of warmth. Yeah.

Gavin Abeyratne (51:15.79)
Mm.

Dr Peta Stapleton (51:27.963)
It's good. It's a good feeling. Yeah, of course. Of course. feel like I need to open my eyes. Yeah. Yeah. Just sort of felt like it was on the outside. I don't know what that was, but no, it was good. It was good. Probably not lost. Yeah.

Gavin Abeyratne (51:30.67)
It's good, right?

Gavin Abeyratne (51:38.316)
Yeah, please do.

Gavin Abeyratne (51:45.646)
Hmm.

Yeah, probably got lost. Well, that's OK. Ion does change. There's a flow state, right? Nice flow state. Good group flow. I knew it do it. And yeah, so then what you'll probably find, what people will tend to find is then just a reduction in any sort of resistance, right? I mean, this is cognitive somatic. We just moved into where it is you wanted to go. What was some of the felt sensors in the body? What that wanted to express to you?

Dr Peta Stapleton (51:52.009)
How I'm scared still. Absolutely, yes.

Gavin Abeyratne (52:16.588)
and then just sort of moving that through the system and letting it clear. And like I said, it's obviously subclinical, like this is not a situation where, you know, this is the most, this isn't where you'd refer someone to, but these are little tensions, which can just make life a bit more flowy and these sorts of transitions and processes around, you know, these things can be a bit nicer because it is can be stressful to move. is your home and you probably love a lot of things about your existing block, right? So there's the, we're bringing up the tension between where you want to be.

Dr Peta Stapleton (52:40.647)
Yeah.

Gavin Abeyratne (52:42.996)
where you still are and some of those things and just dissolving some of that resistance.

Dr Peta Stapleton (52:47.561)
amazing. And I hope anyone listening in may have participated along or certainly rewind and apply it to something in your own life. Gavin, where can people find you? Everyone wants to now go and find you.

Gavin Abeyratne (53:02.061)
Well, I've been hiding, I've been hiding behind the scenes around the places. So my name is a little charming to spell, but growing tall poppies will be the name of my book. So just go there, growingtallpoppies.com and that'll redirect to my website and you can find all the things and get my little mini course on the 6S thing. So you don't have to hear me ramble it on podcasts all the time, because it's pretty good. And I've priced that quite effectively so people can just get that map and model.

And then yeah, where this goes from here, we'll see, we'll see. I'd certainly love you to be part of it in some capacity. Peter, as I said, I think you're absolutely fantastic and an Ironman hero of the Christ consciousness variant. I mean, the thing with our mutual friend, Kez, I was talking about was really, it's very hard to understand me without understanding all of these incredible influences and mentors and people I've been around. so not to be all golden shadow about it, but I just love to bring

Bring the Avengers along for the ride for this one because I think there's some really exciting stuff. What's that?

Dr Peta Stapleton (54:01.343)
I can't believe that's the movie I actually picked. Wow.

Gavin Abeyratne (54:06.474)
Yeah, yeah. Well, that's it, right? So we're putting together the crew, the Avengers, all these amazing fourth wave psychologists who have put themselves out there or coaches or anyone, authors, thought leaders, driving the industry forward, driving these states of consciousness forward, giving people access to their own bodies, their own cognition and that nice blissful state of flow. And maybe we'll end it on that note.

Dr Peta Stapleton (54:15.487)
it.

Dr Peta Stapleton (54:29.161)
Thank you for joining us.

Gavin Abeyratne (54:37.345)
No, thanks Peter.

Dr Peta Stapleton (54:57.075)
where I was. I hope you've enjoyed that as much as I have everybody. Gavin, it has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. I can't wait to see maybe what we can co-create moving forward as well.

Gavin Abeyratne (55:08.782)
Absolutely. Thanks, guys. Thank you, Peter.

Dr Peta Stapleton (55:10.483)
Thanks, everyone. See you soon.

Resources - https://www.integralalchemy.com.au/