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In this episode, Dr. Peta Stapleton reconnects with Kerry Nelson, a quantum empowerment and transformation coach. They explore the cultural misconceptions surrounding change, the significance of personal awakening, and the interplay between science and spirituality in the transformation process. Kerry shares her profound journey of recovery from alcoholism, emphasizing the importance of surrender, self-compassion, and identity change. The conversation culminates in an introduction to Kerry's course, 'Wired for Wonder,' which aims to guide individuals through their own transformation journeys.

Takeaways

• We're getting it fundamentally wrong as a society.
• Transformation came when I threw myself on the floor in rehab.
• The nervous system is overwhelmed by the pace of change.
• Compassion is the highest frequency in transformation.
• The brain doesn't like to change; it prefers stability.
• Real transformation requires ongoing support and connection.
• Mystical experiences can precipitate significant change.
• Identity change is crucial for lasting recovery.
• Spirituality can serve as a concrete pillar in transformation.
• The mechanism of change involves choice, imagination, connection, and transformation.

 Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Quantum Empowerment

03:00 Cultural Perspectives on Change

06:02 Personal Awakening and Surrender

08:59 The Role of Mystical Experiences in Transformation

11:55 Science and Spirituality: Bridging the Gap

14:59 The Importance of Self-Compassion

18:11 Navigating the Change Process

21:01 Identity Change and Recovery

24:03 Wired for Wonder: Course Overview

27:00 The Mechanism of Change

30:05 Conclusion and Future Directions

Keywords: Quantum empowerment, transformation, spiritual practice, heart-brain coherence, energy psychology, personal awakening, self-compassion, change process, identity change, Wired for Wonder

Note: this is unedited.

Dr Peta Stapleton (00:02.752)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the fourth wave in therapy. And I am absolutely delighted today to reconnect with someone that it's probably been about a decade since we crossed each other's paths. And I want to introduce you to Kerry Nelson. Now she prefers to go by Keza. So we will call her that today. Keza is a quantum empowerment and transformation coach.

and guides healers, therapists, and mental health professionals to deepen their spiritual practice and expand their consciousness. We're going to have such a great conversation today. Now, I'm not going to give too much away about Keza's personal journey because we are going to talk about that and really what sort of sparked her own profound awakening. But her work is grounded in heart-brain coherence, energy psychology, which we love.

quantum principles, and she draws from amazing speakers and leading edge thinkers such as our good friend, Dr. Joe Dispenza, Dr. Theresa Bullard White, and lots of other people such as Andrew Newberg. And we're to get into it. We are going to talk at the end about Kez's course that she does have available. And it is something that you may, I'll give you a little sneak peek, everybody. It is called Wired for Wonder.

the brain, the soul, and the choice to change. So we'll talk about that at the end. So please stay tuned so you can get all the details. And of course, if you want to contact Kezo her details, full bio in the notes below. Welcome to the fourth wave in therapy. How are you?

Kerry neilson (01:29.815)
Thank you very much, Peter. I'm delighted to be here.

When you said the name of the course, Wired for Wonder, I went, yes, that was like an Archimedes bathtub experience.

Dr Peta Stapleton (01:34.258)
you

Dr Peta Stapleton (01:47.724)
We are going to get to that. So I'm to get you to put a pin in that one for a minute, because I really want to dive into the juiciness of really what led to the creation of that course and lots of other master classes and things that you've got. But could we start just with sort of a high level question, if you like, and maybe just sort of opening with, you know, you and I cross paths in the education space many, many years ago where

Kerry neilson (02:15.052)
Okay.

Dr Peta Stapleton (02:15.786)
we were running an EFT trial for high achieving year 10 students in the school that you were at at the time. And of course we can link to that publication if anyone wants to read it. talking about your journey and stepping out of that, but maybe what you've been experiencing, you know, from a cultural point of view about the glorification of change, driving change, you know, are we...

Kerry neilson (02:37.163)
Okay, thanks Peter. Well, my short answer is yes. I definitely getting it wrong.

Dr Peta Stapleton (02:43.892)
Are we getting it fundamentally wrong as a society and a culture? And the world is your oyster here. Happy for you to share anything you like.

We're getting it wrong. We're getting it wrong.

Kerry neilson (03:03.876)
And I think that's no surprise to any of our listeners. know, the whole world is now looking at slow, slow pace, slow fashion, slow, you know, retreats. And I think that's because we are probably overwhelming our nervous systems. I mean, there's so much out there that tells us we are.

And having worked in government for nearly 50 years, it's so funny, isn't it? On the one hand, the government is a dinosaur that moves extremely slowly. It plods along. But on the other hand, it's driving, it's telling us to drive change. know, KPIs, you know, what growth are we getting? You know, it's just all plodding along here, but telling us to go fast.

Dr Peta Stapleton (03:55.393)
Yeah.

Kerry neilson (04:01.609)
telling us to improve at all costs, telling us to drive, drive, drive the kids. And having worked in school as a school counselor, you know, the stresses on these kids is overwhelming. Their parents are stressed for a whole lot of different reasons. So what I can tell you is that in my own recovery and healing journey, I spent about 10 years doing CBT, REBT.

ACT, all the Ts, you know, and I did course after course after course. Now I've got to say to you, those courses were great. They kept me sober for about a week.

There was no transformation. And I was a driver to change myself, but I couldn't. And transformation came when I threw myself on the floor in a rehab in desperation on my knees. And I just put my hands up and said, if you're there, you've got to help me.

Dr Peta Stapleton (04:48.588)
Peace.

Kerry neilson (05:15.429)
because if you don't, I'm out of here today. And I don't really know what I meant by that, but it wasn't leaving the rehab in full body.

And that was Surrender.

Dr Peta Stapleton (05:31.69)
Let's, yeah, and I know you've given me permission to really talk about this today because your personal, yeah, your personal awakening, you know, if you like, in that moment, which was in rehab and it was for alcoholism and it was for obviously, you know, that pattern of behavior. And like you said, you've tried a lot of the teas, a lot of the gold standard evidence-based approaches that we're told and have got research behind them.

Kerry neilson (05:36.337)
Sure. Absolutely.

Dr Peta Stapleton (06:02.038)
There was something about a gestalt therapy moment, wasn't there in that? Can you tell us a little bit about what happened that day?

Kerry neilson (06:05.637)
Yes.

Cool. So the first thing is I was in the rehab for a total of eight weeks and this happened about three, maybe four weeks into that stay. So I'd already, you know, the Gestalt therapist ran a group basically from nine to three thirty every day of the week. So by the time he facilitated the Gestalt experiment for me,

I was very comfortable with him. I was very comfortable in the group. So the first thing I'm going to say is even though I had a very, I had a very traumatized nervous system from early childhood trauma, plus the trauma I created through my alcoholism, there was a lot of safety and support and connection.

So that was a very important external.

condition.

Kerry neilson (07:09.349)
So I trusted and I was powerless. I'd admitted my powerlessness. I had completely surrendered and I just allowed the process to happen.

Kerry neilson (07:24.868)
So I forget the question now. Sorry. I think you asked me.

Dr Peta Stapleton (07:32.172)
Because I know in your mind you've definitely got that memory happening for you. In that moment of and in the notes that you gave me you said and I really like this in the exact moment you knew it was over meaning the addiction a crack of thunder broke through a cloudless sky and the hospital lights went out. I have goosebumps as I'm reading this.

This was 1995 and you haven't had a drink since. When you look back at that moment, what do you think happened? So you surrendered, you were on your knees and you went, if somebody's listening, something's listening. What do you think happened?

Kerry neilson (08:04.879)
Yes.

Kerry neilson (08:19.245)
Well, my own belief is that

The Divine?

quantum field, the quantum, the creator, the great spirit, whatever we want to call that power that is greater than us, definitely answered my prayer. Because I hadn't actually done any Gestalt work in the group for a while. And so we went into the group and straight away the Gestalt therapist, Joe, looked at me and said, Kerry, are you ready to do some work?

So that was amazing. He would have used some sort of creative tool. All I know is that I was standing there, I listened to him, and next thing, I definitely was in a cave. A dark cave. It was lined with fire torches and straight ahead of my father.

And I think I say to you, he was probably my greatest agent of change. He was my nemesis. the whole, even talking to you, I get a bit teary. The whole relationship between him and I had always been him speaking at me and not allowing me to speak. So I never heard by him. I was very frustrated, but he listened. We actually engaged.

Kerry neilson (09:56.761)
and I had compassion, had empathy, I had a little bit of love, I had understanding.

And he said those final words to me which were, you don't get it. I have no power over you except the power you give to me. And that's when I got the aha moment. Crack of thunder outside, I felt this power. I still can feel it come up through the ground, up through my feet, up through my whole body and out the crown of my head.

And that's when Joe Darcy, the Kistolt therapist went, my God, because the lights went out. And then I went, it's done. And the lights came on. It was only later I went, that's quite a biblical metaphor, isn't it? It's done.

Dr Peta Stapleton (10:56.544)
Yeah. Yes.

Kerry neilson (10:58.345)
So, you know, I've always thought it was very quantum, but I've also really been, because I have friends who are very into science, I'm not, but I'm, yeah, I wonder if it can be explained through science. And of course it can be. We have that bridge between spirituality and not necessarily classical physics either.

Dr Peta Stapleton (11:00.78)
That's what it's one of.

Dr Peta Stapleton (11:22.635)
Yeah.

Kerry neilson (11:26.961)
or even quantum physics and mechanics. You know, we've got, as you know, Jim Doty, Andrew Newberg, Cindy Wigglesworth, Jeffrey Schwartz. They're the ones that I've sort of pulled together where they actually all have their different terminologies to explain what happened, But really, it's talking about the same stuff.

Dr Peta Stapleton (11:55.816)
And at some level, if we were to use the umbrella term of they're all kind of researching from a neuroscience point of view, some sort of meditative sort of state, that's where they're all coming from, isn't it? And they've all had lots of their own experiences. We'll make sure those names are below if anyone wants to explore their work. there's something, you're, I just want to come back. You're absolutely right that science can explain

what happened to you in that moment, we now have more sophisticated imaging equipment to be able to sort of, you know, measure that Joe Dispenser does it in live sessions where we can see gamma, gamma brainwave states occur for people that coincides with what you talked about, often some sort of imagery or vision or someone appearing to them and then a behavior, it's almost like a DNA upgrade, isn't it?

everything gets upgraded in the body. And alcohol wasn't part of that for you. Yeah, the craving.

Kerry neilson (13:00.925)
No, it's, you know, I've read different things about, perhaps as Jim Doty, who talks about, you know, going in and somehow, through the trust, the tender, the allowing, compassion arises. And I think either he or Wigglesworth who says, compassion is the highest, it's above love, it's the highest frequency.

in my terminology. And he just said, you know, the brain will change with that. It slows down the nervous system. It opens our heart, the connections between the heart and the brain. Everything slows down. So I read somewhere where it says it's where the mystical meets measurement. We can actually measure and get some strategies and that's what

Dr Peta Stapleton (13:39.276)
Yeah.

Dr Peta Stapleton (13:57.696)
Yeah, yep.

Kerry neilson (14:00.387)
is about to actually do it on purpose. I think the key point though

Dr Peta Stapleton (14:08.268)
And it really is the science of transformation, isn't it?

Kerry neilson (14:08.899)
Yeah. Sorry, sorry, go ahead.

Dr Peta Stapleton (14:17.194)
Yeah, the science of transformation, like it really is the transformative process has that explanation. But, and when you were saying compassion, really made me think self-compassion towards the self plays such a role in that, not just towards other people.

Kerry neilson (14:30.368)
of one.

Kerry neilson (14:35.086)
And that brings me to this point. When I'm reading the research, it's all about having compassion for others. They do mention self-compassion. They do mention self-love. But I've got to say to you, the greatest compassion and love in my experience was actually from myself.

Dr Peta Stapleton (14:59.478)
Mm, yeah.

amazing. It's almost like dad might have given you that gift in that moment didn't he? Like dad was the one that in your vision kind of said I don't have any power over you, you're giving me power.

Kerry neilson (15:15.243)
Yes and in life he was a tyrant and I'm not the only one who said it. He himself suffered terribly with mental illness and with alcoholism.

Dr Peta Stapleton (15:26.474)
Yeah.

Kerry neilson (15:33.059)
So the fact that he was the giver of that gift of grace was significant.

Dr Peta Stapleton (15:43.028)
Yeah, I love that, the Gryffindor is in that moment. Yeah, that's amazing. So, as we often think of transformation as some sort of exciting, empowering process, but it's not always the case for people, you know, going through change. We talk about just change. Humans, by basic nature, don't really like change. They like things stable, consistent, Groundhog Day kind of thing.

So it can be deeply destabilizing is the word that you've used. I know that, you know, in a trauma reformed approach, whether we're as a therapist or, you know, we're standing in front of a classroom, whatever, what is it that people may be listening in that want to seek their own journey of change? And that could be joining you, that could be doing their own work. What do they need to know about this transformation change process?

Kerry neilson (16:36.936)
Yes, well a very good point Peter because I don't know the people who are coming if they're coming to the course or doing it through some other means or with some other person. I think if you know that you've got you know the three classic mental health things substance abuse disorder, anxiety or depression

and to what severity if you've sought treatment and you know that your nervous system is fragile, you definitely need to have one of those external conditions I talked about of safety and support and where you can connect to somebody who is a carer for you or a support person or an ally through the journey. That's really important because you're right, we know that

that says the brain doesn't like to change. It likes stability and the fragile nervous system can freak out a little bit. So those things are really important.

Dr Peta Stapleton (17:47.692)
And I guess knowing that up front that if in that change process someone was to kind of encounter any need for more stabilization, but also that, it's not as exciting and empowering as I thought it might be. That probably is quite typical though, isn't it? that's a sign that really change and uncomfortableness. Yeah.

Kerry neilson (18:02.965)
And I think I definitely had that. So I think the really important part is that that release that I experienced and the freedom that I experienced through that, I'm going to call it mystical experience in rehab. Look, I you what, if I hadn't continued with my support

person, my therapist, I would have been back on the bottle in a week because it was just the motivator for change, the encouragement to change. But I spent another two years in the transformation process and that was hard. It was really hard because I had changed my identity. I had to continue changing it. So I had to keep rewiring the brain.

through habits and doing things over and over and over again. And you know, we know about brain loops. You know, just feeling stuck, feeling, you know, I can't do this. That whole ego, as Cindy Winsworth says, the ego sort of versus the spirit and the spiritual intelligence.

So the spirituality became.

my call. If you imagine like a concrete pillar that was my spirituality. I hung on for dear life and I had some moments where I felt panicky.

Dr Peta Stapleton (19:55.98)
It's amazing, isn't it? It's to hear a lot of, and I obviously talking to Andrew Newberg, but doing a lot of research in the mystical experiences spaces, just with some of my students, people talk about a common, common characteristics of what you've talked about today, that often the spark of change, it's not necessary for change, but it's often common, isn't it, that a mystical experience of some sort can precipitate.

Kerry neilson (20:21.435)
Yes. Yes, absolutely. But the real trend and all the researchers say it, the real transformation comes from continuing and embedding and rewiring and repeating, you know,

Dr Peta Stapleton (20:25.504)
that sort of whole process. Yeah.

Kerry neilson (20:40.09)
I think it's Jeffrey Schwartz, isn't it, who has the four-step process for OCD and addiction with all the rigs, repeating, repeating, repeating the practice.

And then suddenly we can.

Dr Peta Stapleton (20:57.184)
Yeah, and I'm glad you mentioned that.

Yeah. Yes. It is suddenly, isn't it? You've had all these years paving the way for the suddenly to actually happen. I'm glad you mentioned the bit about identity change because particularly I know from the addiction research, there is a lot of evidence to suggest that when someone is shifting those addictive behaviors through whatever means, unless there's a true identity shift of I no longer

Kerry neilson (21:26.64)
No.

Dr Peta Stapleton (21:31.432)
identify as that person. I'm not necessarily just recovered, but I'm not that person that often that change doesn't stick. But yeah, there's some even Australian researchers that have said the same, that truly can't live in the same neighborhood, can't necessarily, you know, do the same job, can't have the same haircut, identity shift. Did you find that you mentioned that you did have to do that as well, that that was a really valuable part of

Kerry neilson (21:55.152)
I think that experience was so pivotal in so many ways and I did see myself differently. I felt myself loved, protected and accepted and changed by the Divine.

Dr Peta Stapleton (22:01.333)
I guess the whole puzzle.

Kerry neilson (22:22.2)
And that was huge. That was the basic thing I needed because up until then I was full of shame, self-loathing.

bitterness, hatred. So that was massive and that's why guess spirituality became that concrete pillar inside. But yes, I did go through identity change and you know, NAA, which I was in for a little while, it talks about you need to change people, places and things.

And I guess that's what they're really saying is you need to change your identity, what you do, who you hang with, and your hobbies and leisure activities. And that probably does slowly change.

Dr Peta Stapleton (23:12.715)
Yeah, it's all.

Yeah, that association. Classical conditioning is so strong in all of us as well. So tell me, I'm really excited to dive and unpack a little bit about now where you're at. So 1995 happens, journey of transformation, change for yourself. You've stepped out of now the education world in those roles. And of course we do now.

get to hear about Wired for Wonder. So you've spent years, I guess, in the learning process with all of these greats that are out there and what they've studied and what they've researched. But you've pulled together now a course, which is very much about the brain, the soul, and the choice to change. It seems like a perfect time to kind of, you know, have all this come together, not only in your own life, but for where we are too, like we opened with that.

Kerry neilson (24:03.294)
Okay.

Dr Peta Stapleton (24:14.496)
you know, where are we in society kind of thing? What is it that people are seeking? So tell us a little bit about how did it come together and now what is it that you're offering to the world?

Kerry neilson (24:28.916)
So how it came together was through me, that bridge between the science and spirituality and you know as I said before looking at how the mystical can be measured and of course that led me to all of these researches.

Dr Peta Stapleton (24:32.96)
Thank

Kerry neilson (24:50.284)
Not everyone is going to have, as you noted, Peter, an incredible transformation spontaneously. And whilst that's lovely and wonderful, as we both said, it's not going to last unless we do the real transformation. So I went through years of therapy. had a lot to unpack. I was 38 when I recovered. And

I got to the stage further down the track where I went, well, I've had all of this processing. It's all flowed. I know a lot about depth psychology. But what's the science behind what happened?

and another Archimedes bathtub moment, I had this incredible insight and this was about two years ago and I had nothing to connect it with at that time but it was a unique mechanism of choose, imagine, connect, transform.

So I've researched that for the last two years. And of course, it's supported by so many of these researchers. as Jeffrey Schwartz says, know, it's all a transformation change in the brain happens from attention, focus, and intention or choice. And he says choice starts

You've got to choose to change.

Kerry neilson (26:36.817)
And my surrender and allowance was my signature choice point.

Dr Peta Stapleton (26:47.04)
Yeah.

Kerry neilson (26:50.611)
So.

Dr Peta Stapleton (26:52.15)
So I'm guessing the pillars then, yeah, are those four ideas, aren't they? The pillars of the program and ultimately the bigger picture of change.

Kerry neilson (26:59.625)
Yes. And I talk about it as being I've got graphics image. I talk about this four stage being a spiral, but it spirals upwards. And it's not linear. We can come in at any point. But we're always, if we're doing the work, spiraling upwards.

I give some information, psychoeducation and strategies around how to deal with the stuck points and the loops. And they all come from a wide range of factors, but experiences, my experiences, other people's experiences. Yeah.

but it's choosing every day.

Dr Peta Stapleton (27:52.3)
Amazing.

Dr Peta Stapleton (27:59.052)
Absolutely. And I'm glad the visual is like going up is almost transcending beyond ourselves as well, isn't it? Like to me that imagery of, you know, kind of, yeah, sort of going to that next level within our own, you know, I think of Maslow's hierarchy of really that, you know, self transcendence really that other researchers have added to the top of self actualization. It's like transcending beyond ourselves. Yeah, I love that imagery of that. So.

Kerry neilson (28:20.442)
it.

Kerry neilson (28:27.186)
Okay.

Dr Peta Stapleton (28:28.918)
Tell me, how long does the course go for in duration? Yeah.

Kerry neilson (28:30.95)
Yes, there's a short course, there's a four-week course, and then there's a longer extended program. And I also within that offer one-to-one coaching for those people who just want to get right into it a bit deeper. It's supported by an e-book. It's supported by a webinar. And I start with a master class.

So, I'm so excited about this. Can I just go back?

Dr Peta Stapleton (29:04.972)
amazing.

and tell us where can I know why. Yes.

Kerry neilson (29:11.704)
This really interesting, Peter, have you have the listeners seen or heard of Cindy Wigilworth's SQ21 model? It's fantastic. It's got the four categories of spiritual and we can measure them and improve them. And it's a wonderful, wonderful tool. So

Dr Peta Stapleton (29:28.432)
my god.

Kerry neilson (29:39.703)
I also refer to that in the Master. Yeah, it's wonderful.

Dr Peta Stapleton (29:42.796)
Amazing work. So there's a link.

Fabulous. How wonderful. Wired for Wonder, everybody. Where can we find you at Keza?

Kerry neilson (29:54.533)
So my website is kerrie-nielsen.com.au.

Dr Peta Stapleton (30:05.158)
wonderful. We'll make sure that there is absolutely a link below everybody in case you're curious at whatever point in time you might be listening to this and deciding yeah maybe I've had a transformational moment and want to fully understand that a little bit more or I know that maybe I need some assistance here to you know have that support during the change process because yeah we all go through different seasons of life don't we and and sometimes we need to shed

Kerry neilson (30:27.191)
Yes.

Dr Peta Stapleton (30:34.89)
They all, yeah, for the new to come in.

Kerry neilson (30:36.415)
Absolutely Peter. Great to hear you say that because you're such, as I said to you, you're such a, you're such an, you're an elite leader in science of transformation and it's such an honour for me to be here with you today because I mean you know all, you know you're one of them.

Dr Peta Stapleton (30:43.638)
Yeah.

Dr Peta Stapleton (31:02.742)
Thank you. Thank you, Carrie. I think sometimes it just happens. we maybe didn't set the intention all the time, but at the same time, yeah, my own change process absolutely has been a journey as well. Maybe I should record an episode on that at some point in my life, because I think what people might see, they don't realize the work that you're doing behind closed doors. And I tell you, the work never stops. So whilst we research certain techniques.

Kerry neilson (31:24.163)
I just.

Dr Peta Stapleton (31:32.908)
I'm a believer in throw everything out.

Kerry neilson (31:35.776)
Yep, me too. I just got goose bumps when you said maybe you should record your own story. I'm as I said, so I think you need to do it. I'd certainly be up for it.

Dr Peta Stapleton (31:46.348)
Yeah, Okay, please aside.

Dr Peta Stapleton (31:53.982)
Okay, it's all right.

Yes, and I've heard a few listeners that go, I didn't know that. OK, it's on the list. promise. I promise everybody. I'll do that. Amazing. That's wonderful. It is my own journey. Absolutely is how I found the transformation tool of EFT, but also neuro-linguistic programming. Way back in the day, in my early 20s, I was looking to personally do some change work.

Kerry neilson (32:00.532)
Yeah.

Kerry neilson (32:06.55)
Right.

Dr Peta Stapleton (32:27.05)
I wasn't really looking for my clients. That is how those tools came across in my life. know, Louise Hay, meditations or visualizations, guided imagery, timeline therapy, all of the stuff that was outside the norm back then was purely because, yeah, I was hunting around looking in the local library in the CD cassettes. What can I listen to and borrow? So yeah, that was absolutely me in my early 20s.

Kerry neilson (32:37.089)
And I have one question to ask you. What do you...

Dr Peta Stapleton (32:58.422)
Absolutely.

Kerry neilson (32:59.878)
a lot of psychologists at least having an underlying spirituality that guides them in their personal lives and work.

Dr Peta Stapleton (33:14.668)
Yeah, I don't know whether I would know how many psychologists have that. It's certainly not something that may be raised as a topic in training and teaching. So it's certainly like, I don't think it's something that enters the education system where it's posed as, hey, have you got a spiritual practice to cope with what you're going to do for a living here or what you're choosing as a path? I would say

the colleagues around myself, know, Yale's famous paper titled, you know, birds of a feather flock together. So the six people that really are the greatest influence on yourself or who you talk to the most are very similar to you. And I would absolutely say that's me in my life, that the PhD students, I attract, if we use that language, who want to do a PhD with me, no matter what topic, are all the same as me. So there may not be

Kerry neilson (33:51.215)
Okay.

you

Dr Peta Stapleton (34:14.28)
exploring EOP, they might be exploring a different topic, but we have these conversations there. So it's funny, as soon as you end up supervising and guiding are the ones that have exactly the same kind of approach and you do have these conversations, you know, and you have moments where you're talking about people's lives that you're supporting. So I would absolutely say my spiritual journey started

Kerry neilson (34:15.07)
Okay.

Dr Peta Stapleton (34:40.038)
in my teenage years. So whilst I had a traditional religious upbringing and part of that was in Catholicism and I played the organ at church for 20 years of my life. I'm like I've got a ticket to heaven I tell you playing the organ. walked away from the traditional Catholic upbringing in my 20s.

Kerry neilson (34:40.167)
Yes.

Kerry neilson (34:47.774)
you

Kerry neilson (34:53.028)
I frick.

Dr Peta Stapleton (35:04.586)
But I certainly didn't walk away from spirituality, but it absolutely played a role. And I absolutely remember sitting in therapy with clients opposite me. And I worked in the addiction space, eating just sort of sitting there and I'm like 21. And I have no idea what to say to the client, really don't have much training background. And I remember sitting there, I don't know who I was talking to, but I'm kind of in my mind looking up going, you need to give me an idea here because I've got NFA.

Kerry neilson (35:32.971)
Yeah.

Dr Peta Stapleton (35:34.684)
NFI. I've got no epic idea of what to say here. And having a channel come through and an idea that would just pop to mind and I'd go, so and the client would just go, why did you ask me that? And that would be the piece that needed to be unraveled or whatever. So I don't know. I didn't learn that at university. was just in here going, I've got to have something here. Yeah. So there you go. I absolutely have to do that. I'll do that episode.

Kerry neilson (35:49.203)
But.

Kerry neilson (35:53.884)
But I suspect that.

Kerry neilson (36:03.804)
I've got goosebumps again.

Dr Peta Stapleton (36:04.844)
That's amazing. I will. I will. That's fabulous. Keri, Kez, Keza, it's been just wonderful to connect with you again. And you are the reason we started the EFT research in schools, because it was your conversation with me about, do we think we could help these students, which then snowballed, you know, a whole kind of not only field of research with students, but

Kerry neilson (36:32.86)
Thank you so much, Peter. I'm blessed and honored. Thank you.

Dr Peta Stapleton (36:33.356)
training of teachers worldwide in classroom tapping and things like that and people might not realize that you are the person that started that here, you know, on the Gold Coast with me. So I bless you for that door that you opened which I didn't know the other journey that you were going on at the time which I'm so glad you've shared with us today.

Dr Peta Stapleton (37:04.076)
Amazing. And everybody, encourage you to have a look in the show notes below and go and connect with Keza and absolutely have a look at the four week program or the longer. If you're curious and interested and maybe want to take that next step in your own personal development journey, it's always wonderful, I think, to share with someone who has had those experiences because you don't feel alone or to know that these things are possible. So absolute pleasure, Keza.

Kerry neilson (37:16.027)
Excellent. Great. Thanks, Peter. Bye.

Dr Peta Stapleton (37:33.066)
look forward to sharing that episode that you've now got me committed to recording about my own transformation journey.

Dr Peta Stapleton (37:45.046)
Thanks so much. Bye.

Resources - https://www.kerryneilson.com.au/ 
Free webinar https://kerry-neilson.mykajabi.com/quantum-empowerment-opt-in 
Free introduction session with Kerry - https://kerry-neilson.mykajabi.com/quantum-
empowerment-opt-in